# Guess who: Racism is funny **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996 "2005-04-06T04:38:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/21 "2005-04-06T17:52:34Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Anyway, Tracy tries one of the “funky” flavours at Hepburn’s suggestion and likes it…cue sappy music to Tracy accepting Pointier (as if someone would turn a nose up at widowed Uber-doctor, dedicated to helping the poor…) I’ve always thought **Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?** went a bit overboard in making Pointier’s character Dr. Wonderful. Not only is he nice, handsome, smart, AND a doctor, he’s a doctor devoted to worthy causes who’s just been appointed to an important position by the UN! I suppose the filmmakers wanted to make it clear that the parents had no reason to object other than his race. Judging solely from the commercials for **Guess Who?** , Mac objects to Kutcher primarily because Kutcher keeps making inappropriate sexual comments and gets caught wearing the daughter’s lingerie. If race plays into it, it’s certainly not the whole problem. The young man’s behavior troubles the father. Maybe the movie is different than it appears, but it doesn’t seem like racism is the real problem. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/22 "2005-04-06T18:22:46Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’ve always thought **Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?** went a bit overboard in making Pointier’s character Dr. Wonderful. Not only is he nice, handsome, smart, AND a doctor, he’s a doctor devoted to worthy causes who’s just been appointed to an important position by the UN! I suppose the filmmakers wanted to make it clear that the parents had no reason to object other than his race. The movie was directed by Stanley Kramer, not a person known for his subtle touch. Remember, he did **The Defiant Ones** – not a bad movie, but the metaphor is extremely heavyhanded. He also did **It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World** after a friend complained Kramer had no sense of humor. Turned out the friend was right. As far as the OP is concerned, sure racism can be funny. It all depends on how it’s handled. There’s no reason the film couldn’t have been made with a black fiance and a white family. Think “Meet the Parents,” with Chris Rock instead of Ben Stiller. Some of the jokes could have been changed, but so what? In this case, they chose a black family, but it could have been the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/23 "2005-04-06T18:43:52Z")
I saw the movie, and while they did play the white and black thing some, it was more of a “meet the parents” type movie. Ashton doesnt start break dancing at the end to show his “hip”. He simply just shows how much he loves their daughter. Maybe you should actually WATCH the movie before thinking it has anything to do with racisim. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/24 "2005-04-06T18:56:18Z")
For the record, I never said anyone was racist, just that Bernie Mac’s character sounds bigoted and prejudiced. I last saw the original movie 20-odd years ago. I still don’t remember it being a comedy. Even now I’m more struck recalling its dramatic moments moreso than any of its comedic ones. I especially remember (and still dislike) Pointier’s less than wonderful diatribe against his father’s objections to his impeding marriage. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/25 "2005-04-06T19:11:09Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > I understand that it’s somewhat justifiable to assume that a Hollywood interracial comedy would be full of corny stereotype jokes, but I don’t understand assuming so to the extent of never even doubting your prejudice that the film _has_ to be racist. I was only referring to the premise when declaring it racist. Reverse it. White family won’t accept black daughter, as a comedy. There’d be outrage. If it’d be racist with that switched premise, it’s racist with its current premise. And it probably is based off a racial stereotype humor, but since I haven’t seen it, I don’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/26 "2005-04-06T19:18:19Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > This is perhaps the most ridiculous example of the ol’ “Everyone oppresses the white man, but if the tables were turned they’d cry racism!” I’ve ever seen. The reverse was done decades ago in the extremely well-known film **Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?** , about a liberal white family’s difficulty in accepting the idea that their daughter was going to marry a black man. Well, I wasn’t aware of the movie, and even if so, the social structure since that time has changed hugely, so I don’t think I’m really far off. If they did another movie like “Guess who’s coming to dinner?” nowadays, as a _comedy_, you’d probably see outrage. I did lack the knowledge that it was a remake, but my basic premise was sound, I think. If it weren’t a remake, and it just came out of the blue, and the roles were reversed, you would indeed have a ton of pissed off people. > [@](#): > > I thought that everyone had heard of this movie and that everyone knew that the premise of the current **Guess Who?** was a race-swapped riff on the original, but I guess I was wrong. That’s the sort of thing one would usually want to find out about before spouting off about “double standards” though. Eh, I guess. I could’ve googled “preachy movies about racism eventually remade into comedies” but it didn’t occur to me. It’s not the sort of thing one thinks of unless they know about the original movie. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/27 "2005-04-06T19:38:52Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Reverse it. White family won’t accept black daughter, as a comedy. There’d be outrage. I can’t understand why you’d think that. Who would be outraged, and why? And besides, there’s outrage now, unless you and the OP in the thread I linked don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/28 "2005-04-06T19:51:04Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > I can’t understand why you’d think that. Who would be outraged, and why? A popular comedy with a racist-against-blacks premise, in the current culture, would take a ton of flak. Even if it had a syrupy moral lesson with it. I can’t prove that, but be realistic - people explode over anything remotely deemed to be racist against minorities. > [@](#): > > And besides, there’s outrage now, unless you and the OP in the thread I linked don’t count. I’m not actually outraged, I don’t care about the premise in a personal way. I just thought it was funny how a racist premise is totally accepted when if the victims were different it would be rejected. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/29 "2005-04-06T19:53:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Reverse it. White family won’t accept black daughter, as a comedy. There’d be outrage. False assumption. There’s no reason to believe there’d necessarily be any outrage at the idea. It all depends on how things are portrayed. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/30 "2005-04-06T19:57:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I can’t prove that, but be realistic - people explode over anything remotely deemed to be racist against minorities. I am being realistic, I just have a different prejudice about people’s reaction to jokes about race in popular entertainment than you do. I don’t even see why you think either situation can only be offensive to one group. _Guess Who_’s setup could easily be filled with a bunch of offensive anti-black jokes, especially since there are more blacks in the movie than whites. What about the setup makes you think its intristically offensive to whites? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/31 "2005-04-06T20:11:56Z")
Make that, “I have a different prejudice about racial jokes in Hollywood fare and people’s reaction to it than you do”. Specifically, I think there are way more offensive portrayals of black people, ostensibly humourous or otherwise, in Hollywood than of whites that go without comment from anyone because they’re so common. And I hear more overreactions from whites whenever something can be misconstrued to be offensive to white people than from blacks (like in this case). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/32 "2005-04-06T20:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=pizzabrat] I am being realistic, I just have a different prejudice about people’s reaction to jokes about race in popular entertainment than you do. I don’t even see why you think either situation can only be offensive to one group. [QUOTE] The premise from the description is that the father was optimistic/accepting towards the guy his daughter wanted to marry, until he found out he was white, at which point he became outraged. If the reverse were true, and a white guy flipped out because his daughter wanted to marry a black man, as a comedy, at the very least, it would be regarded as distasteful, and at most, very racist. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/33 "2005-04-06T20:27:49Z")
Okay, I’m confused. **SenorBeef** , your original impression of this movie (founded on… nothing at all, as near as I can tell) is that it was about an inter-racial marriage whre the black side of the family is full of racists. This movie has not generated any outrage or protests. However, you seem to think that an almost identical movie, wherein the _white_ side of the family is presented as racist, _would_ generate outrage and protests. From whom, precisely? Klansmen? Neo-Nazis? Assuming that the basic premise is going to cause the movie itself to be perceived as racist (which is itself a pretty stupid assumption), the movie that is currently showing in theaters would be far more offensive to minorities than the reverse. So the fact that there has been no backlash over this movie is proof that your premise is entirely hollow. Oh, and this imagined backlash from the movie-going public would be indicative of a double-standard in Hollywood… how, exactly? They can’t control how the public reacts to their movies. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/34 "2005-04-06T20:33:05Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > For the record, I never said anyone was racist, just that Bernie Mac’s character sounds bigoted and prejudiced. Well, it’s not as if there’s a shortage of asshole characters of any skin color in cinema history. I last saw the original movie 20-odd years ago. I still don’t remember it being a comedy. Even now I’m more struck recalling its dramatic moments moreso than any of its comedic ones. I especially remember (and still dislike) Pointier’s less than wonderful diatribe against his father’s objections to his impeding marriage. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Reverse it. White family won’t accept black daughter, as a comedy. There’d be outrage. Make a few small tweaks to the details, and you’d have [_Bringing Down The House._](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0305669/) Don’t recall any outrage over that, even with the main black character being a stereotypical streetwise sass-talkin’ prison escapee. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/35 "2005-04-06T20:44:15Z")
Why don’t people actually go see the movie before calling it racist? This is the 2nd thread we’ve about this stupid movie, and neither OP have even bothered to watch it. **Senorbeef** , can’t you see the irony is railing against a movie because it puts a light-hearted spin on prejudice, when it’s obvious that prejudice has led you to your own conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/36 "2005-04-06T20:45:14Z")
**SenorBeef** has noted Bringing Down The House is a comedy in which the White Male lead, is expecting a Blond White woman to knock on is door. Instead he opens to find Queen Latifah and is upset about this. Queen Latifah is subjected to various “maid” jokes, and ends up in a **Maid’s uniform** serving dinner to an Old Soutern Belle, who requests that Queen Latifah sing some negro spirituals. The dinner is highlighted when the old woman tells the tale of feeding table scraps to her Negro childhood maid., who was glad to have it… Then of course you have Steve Martin, dressing hippity hop and some brothers getting the old white lady stoned on weed. The ending has Mr. Martin getting back with his white wife. While Queen Latifah ends up with “jive” taking Mr. Levy; whose hair she’s cornrolling. I don’t believe we ever see Queen Latifah kiss Mr. Levy, yet the impression is they are lovers. I’m sure I can expect you to join the Panthers in attacking this clearly racist film, oh wait no one gave a damn…the question is why do you? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/37 "2005-04-06T20:47:40Z")
That should be **AS** noted. All **SenorBeef** has noted is his/her ability to jerk knees with the best of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/38 "2005-04-06T20:56:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Okay, I’m confused. > > **SenorBeef** , your original impression of this movie (founded on… nothing at all, as near as I can tell) I was just commenting on the premise, as quoted in the OP. > [@](#): > > is that it was about an inter-racial marriage whre the black side of the family is full of racists. This movie has not generated any outrage or protests. However, you seem to think that an almost identical movie, wherein the _white_ side of the family is presented as racist, _would_ generate outrage and protests. From whom, precisely? Klansmen? Neo-Nazis? No. You’re assuming the racists would be portrayed as the bad guys, and hence, the people of the same race as the racists would be offended. But I’m presuming (yeah, I know) that bernie mac, the lead actor, isn’t portrayed as a racist doofus, but rather, a character that seems normal/justified/whatever in his prejudiced reaction. I very much doubt they present it any other way. > [@](#): > > Assuming that the basic premise is going to cause the movie itself to be perceived as racist (which is itself a pretty stupid assumption), the movie that is currently showing in theaters would be far more offensive to minorities than the reverse. So the fact that there has been no backlash over this movie is proof that your premise is entirely hollow. > > Oh, and this imagined backlash from the movie-going public would be indicative of a double-standard in Hollywood… how, exactly? They can’t control how the public reacts to their movies. Alright, then I suppose what I’m declaring is a double standard on the part of society, you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/39 "2005-04-06T21:04:08Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > Why don’t people actually go see the movie before calling it racist? This is the 2nd thread we’ve about this stupid movie, and neither OP have even bothered to watch it. I made it clear that I was commenting on the premise I read. The ad I caught on TV about it pretty much seemed to have the same premise. > [@](#): > > **Senorbeef** , can’t you see the irony is railing against a movie because it puts a light-hearted spin on prejudice, when it’s obvious that prejudice has led you to your own conclusions? What prejudice on my part has lead me to my own conclusions, exactly? I’m not really railing against the movie, I don’t really care. Even if the movie was a full blown racist film, it wouldn’t bother me any. The only thing that irritates me here is a perceived double standard by society. The gist of my post is this: Would these two premises get the exact same reaction from the public? Percy Jones is taking no chances with his daughter Theresa’s future. Even before he meets Simon Green, her latest boyfriend, Percy has him checked out. On paper, he passes with flying colors – great job, good investments and a promising future… But there’s one thing the credit report didn’t tell him: Simon Green is black. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Unless, of course, Simon wants to marry his daughter. Which he does. But there’s one thing the credit report didn’t tell him: Simon Green is white. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Unless, of course, Simon wants to marry his daughter. Which he does. I don’t think they’d receive that same reaction, although I may be wrong. I’ve never seen bringing down the house, but I’ll take your words for it that it’s a counter-example of my premise and will admit that I’m probably wrong in my estimation of the severity of the reation. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996/40 "2005-04-06T21:16:36Z")
Also, first, sorry that I didn’t discover the thread that covered this earlier. I searched for ‘guess’ in thread titles, but since the movie was in quotes, the word was ‘"guess’, and so it didn’t match my search. > [@holmes](#): > > That should be **AS** noted. All **SenorBeef** has noted is his/her ability to jerk knees with the best of 'em. I really haven’t knee jerked. You’ll have to take my word for it that I don’t actually care about the racist content of the movie - that is, it doesn’t personally offend me. I’m actually about as non-knee-jerk as people come. My objection was what in my estimation was a hypocritical double standard on parts of society as a whole, or at least, people who would normally knee-jerk in reaction to any perceived racism or racial stereotyping against minorities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-who-racism-is-funny/297996.md?page=3)