# Guide Rail or Guard Rail? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 5, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073 "2019-06-05T13:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/21 "2019-06-06T11:18:26Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It’s true that I-95 is technically a north-south road from beginning to end, but it runs pretty much due east-west through all of Connecticut. Funny you should mention that, as I was imagining my recent stint on it from Greenwich to NYC. Now I feel better ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/22 "2019-06-06T12:28:56Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Civil engineer here. I have never seen the term guide rail used before. Looking through the _Big Book of Stuff We Can Put on Signs_, also known as the _Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices_, the phrase ‘guide rail’ does not appear. I have no idea why they’re using the term guide rail. The MUTCD is put out by the Federal Highway Administration, and we’re not supposed to deviate from it, so that does not appear to be an allowable sign. Maybe it’s something old and still in their inventory, or the sign maker can’t hear very well. > > The metal stuff with two humps is metal beam guard rail, or w-beam guard rail. If the splices are between the posts, a more recent configuration, it’s the Midwest guard rail system, or MGS. The three hump stuff is thrie beam barrier. I’ll have to quibble just a bit. Yes, the FHWA has its MUTCD, but some of the states have their own version of it, which of course the feds review and bless. I don’t think they’d get their panties in a twist if you called it guide rail on a sign (I have never seen a sign calling it anything at all, why would there be one?), all they really care about is that what you’re using is a crash-tested design > [@Yllaria](#): > > If you’re submitting a grant for federal funds, call them guardrails. They like that. The FHWA doesn’t care what you call them. It’s not like you apply for a grant for a particular project, the FHWA and state DOTs have understandings about the standards that go into road and bridge projects. If you take an approved rail and call it the magic rail, they won’t mind. If you want to put sticks and twine up and call it a guardrail, they will catch it and not only will they not participate in the funding, they’ll find you in non-compliance and watch ALL of your federal funds disappear. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/23 "2019-06-06T12:41:19Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > I have no idea why they’re using the term guide rail. The MUTCD is put out by the Federal Highway Administration, and we’re not supposed to deviate from it, so that does not appear to be an allowable sign. Is that the same Highway Administration [that says](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/countermeasures/faqs/qa_bttabr.cfm#brrs9) : “ **These terms are synonymous**. A few states are required by judicial interpretation to refer to steel beam barriers as “guiderail” because the barriers are not seen as devices that can guard motorists from all injuries. Rather, the steel beam system can only “guide” the car and its occupants. .” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/24 "2019-06-06T12:58:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is that the same Highway Administration [that says](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/countermeasures/faqs/qa_bttabr.cfm#brrs9) : “ **These terms are synonymous**. A few states are required by judicial interpretation to refer to steel beam barriers as “guiderail” because the barriers are not seen as devices that can guard motorists from all injuries. Rather, the steel beam system can only “guide” the car and its occupants. .” Stupid English language. Hit one head on and it will guide you to the hospital. Mostly where I’ve seen them they guard you from traveling further off the side of a road and down an embankment or off a cliff. Occasionally to guard you from running into a the side of a cliff. And on some minimally divided roads they guard you from running into traffic going in the opposite direction. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/25 "2019-06-06T13:23:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is that the same Highway Administration [that says](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/countermeasures/faqs/qa_bttabr.cfm#brrs9) : “ **These terms are synonymous**. A few states are required by judicial interpretation to refer to steel beam barriers as “guiderail” because the barriers are not seen as devices that can guard motorists from all injuries. Rather, the steel beam system can only “guide” the car and its occupants. .” Yup, that’s the one! In all the research reports I’ve read, crash tests I’ve reviewed, vendors I’ve talked with, I have never come across the term ‘guide rail’. Now I’m wondering how regional the term may be. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/26 "2019-06-06T13:27:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ll have to quibble just a bit. Yes, the FHWA has its MUTCD, but some of the states have their own version of it, which of course the feds review and bless. I don’t think they’d get their panties in a twist if you called it guide rail on a sign (I have never seen a sign calling it anything at all, why would there be one?), all they really care about is that what you’re using is a crash-tested design. Yup, California has their own version, too. Hadn’t thought about that aspect of the question. Now I’m wondering how regional the term may be. I got to wondering about variations on a sign in the MUTCD as I tried deviating from a standard sign once and got smacked down. What state is this in, **Kayaker**? Or, since this is the internet, anyone following this in another country willing to share what you call the stuff? If we get 3 or 4 terms in here we can really cloud the issue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/27 "2019-06-06T14:19:00Z")
I am in western Pennsylvania. Yesterday I searched to see how PENNDOT described the project but the overall project is called “road resurfacing”, with no mention of guard or guide rails. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/28 "2019-06-06T19:09:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > . . . The FHWA doesn’t care what you call them. It’s not like you apply for a grant for a particular project, the FHWA and state DOTs have understandings about the standards that go into road and bridge projects. If you take an approved rail and call it the magic rail, they won’t mind. If you want to put sticks and twine up and call it a guardrail, they will catch it and not only will they not participate in the funding, they’ll find you in non-compliance and watch ALL of your federal funds disappear. And yet grants are competitive and graded by a committee of local area volunteers. If you use the language they’re expecting, making it easier for them to evaluate you, they’re more likely to add a few points to one or more of their rubric boxes. Guardrails vs. guide rails probably isn’t a big deal, but concentrating on making it easy for the grant grader to give you points definitely is. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073/29 "2019-06-07T09:21:40Z")
Without any other context, “guide rail” would suggest a handrail of some type, “guard rail” would suggest some form of armco barrier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guide-rail-or-guard-rail/835073.md?page=1)