# Guitar Necks - Shaping them Back in the Day (by hand) vs. Now (computer) - some Geekery **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904 "2013-11-14T14:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/21 "2013-11-15T02:05:21Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Yeah, I had one Fender long ago that had the adjustment at the heel, but there’s no way I would buy a new neck with that “feature”. What was Leo thinking? This is going to sound like heresy. Look, I love Fender amps and guitars. The man was a number one innovator. But I always remember this too - he was an electrical engineer. He was NOT a musician. He started out with a radio repair shop. This was in the 40’s when the only thing available in consumer electronics were cabinet radios. He’d repair them (usually just replacing a burned out tube) and maybe sell some from his shop. And occasionally touring musicians would bring in PA systems and guitar amplifiers for repair. He’d fix them and eventually he decided 1) these guitar amps were shit and B) he could design and build better guitar amplifiers. So he did. And somewhere along the line, he started building steel and pedal steel guitars. Understand, he couldn’t play them and didn’t really understand all the nuances but he hired someone who did to design them. Leo did the pickup and volume/tone circuit. The first Fender electric guitars (either Broadcasters or Esquires) were sold as a promotional kit. Buy a new Fender amplifier and for $50 or some amount more, you get a electric guitar kit. Follow the instructions to solder what needed soldering together, bolt what needed bolting together, take it to the shop where you bought it and they’d set the bridge up for string height and intonation for you and probably sell you a strap, a cord, and some picks and you were ready to play. Surprising everyone, people started going to dealers asking to buy the guitar kits without having to buy another amplifier. So the dealers started calling Fender begging for more guitars and Fender ramped up the production lines and went into the Electric Guitar manufacturing business. Hell, buyers were willing to wait 6 weeks for their Fender guitar. Rather than buy a hollow body Gibson gathering dust on the dealer’s shelf. But that’s another story. As for the heel neck adjustment, the first Fender electrics had NO truss rod. It never occurred to them that it would need one. No one had ever made one piece maple necks before. As it turned out, after about a year all the guitars they had sold had bowed necks. So they took all their necks off the production line, cut a slot in the back, drilled a hole through the heel into the slot, from the slot through the headstock, inserted a truss rod and appropriate hardware, and filled in the slot with a strip of walnut (the “skunk stripe”), and put a plug in the hole in the headstock. So, what Leo was thinking of was a quick and dirty way to fix the neck problem. Then they had a recall of the bowed necks for the new improved necks. And that’s why any first issue Fenders you come across will NOT have matching neck/body serial numbers/dates. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/22 "2013-11-15T08:09:42Z")
To be fair, CNC machines can and in many cases do, make any kind of shape necks or fretboards you program them to make, including exotic shapes. I find that fret height is just as important to the feel of the neck as thickness/width of the neck. Also, I would like to say that stainless steel frets are awesome and in no way hurt or even affect tone. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/23 "2013-11-15T12:02:34Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > To be fair, CNC machines can and in many cases do, make any kind of shape necks or fretboards you program them to make, including exotic shapes. > > I find that fret height is just as important to the feel of the neck as thickness/width of the neck. > > Also, I would like to say that stainless steel frets are awesome and in no way hurt or even affect tone. Of course CNC’s can do that - but typically they are set up to crank out high-volume runs of the same profile, not do pricier one-off shapes, at least in mass production land. As for SS frets - cool; those are one of those issues that folks get all feisty about on guitar boards. “They make the tone brighter and kill strings!!” “no they don’t, and you never have to refret!!” Oy. I haven’t had a guitar with SS fret, so can’t comment. And yes, fret height is key - for me and for many, though, it comes after deciding whether you like the neck’s carve. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/24 "2013-11-15T12:13:45Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > This is going to sound like heresy. Look, I love Fender amps and guitars. The man was a number one innovator. But I always remember this too - he was an electrical engineer. He was NOT a musician. > > He started out with a radio repair shop. This was in the 40’s when the only thing available in consumer electronics were cabinet radios. He’d repair them (usually just replacing a burned out tube) and maybe sell some from his shop. And occasionally touring musicians would bring in PA systems and guitar amplifiers for repair. He’d fix them and eventually he decided 1) these guitar amps were shit and B) he could design and build better guitar amplifiers. So he did. And somewhere along the line, he started building steel and pedal steel guitars. Understand, he couldn’t play them and didn’t really understand all the nuances but he hired someone who did to design them. Leo did the pickup and volume/tone circuit. > > The first Fender electric guitars (either Broadcasters or Esquires) were sold as a promotional kit. Buy a new Fender amplifier and for $50 or some amount more, you get a electric guitar kit. Follow the instructions to solder what needed soldering together, bolt what needed bolting together, take it to the shop where you bought it and they’d set the bridge up for string height and intonation for you and probably sell you a strap, a cord, and some picks and you were ready to play. > Surprising everyone, people started going to dealers asking to buy the guitar kits without having to buy another amplifier. So the dealers started calling Fender begging for more guitars and Fender ramped up the production lines and went into the Electric Guitar manufacturing business. Hell, buyers were willing to wait 6 weeks for their Fender guitar. Rather than buy a hollow body Gibson gathering dust on the dealer’s shelf. But that’s another story. > > As for the heel neck adjustment, the first Fender electrics had NO truss rod. It never occurred to them that it would need one. No one had ever made one piece maple necks before. As it turned out, after about a year all the guitars they had sold had bowed necks. So they took all their necks off the production line, cut a slot in the back, drilled a hole through the heel into the slot, from the slot through the headstock, inserted a truss rod and appropriate hardware, and filled in the slot with a strip of walnut (the “skunk stripe”), and put a plug in the hole in the headstock. So, what Leo was thinking of was a quick and dirty way to fix the neck problem. Then they had a recall of the bowed necks for the new improved necks. And that’s why any first issue Fenders you come across will NOT have matching neck/body serial numbers/dates. I didn’t know about the guitars starting out as a bonus product, nor about the bowed necks and therefore mismatched serial numbers and dates. Interesting - if you can point me to where you learned that stuff, I would be interested in reading more… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/25 "2013-11-15T12:44:53Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I didn’t know about the guitars starting out as a bonus product, nor about the bowed necks and therefore mismatched serial numbers and dates. Interesting - if you can point me to where you learned that stuff, I would be interested in reading more… When in doubt, go to **cfh** ’s site 😉 [http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fender2.html#tele](http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fender2.html#tele) Mentions truss rod additions, but not the kits: > [@](#): > > When first announced in June of 1950 (but available a bit earlier) as Fender’s first electric solidbody, the Esquire was a available with either one or two pickups (actually the “single Esquire” with one pickup was available first), a black pine laminated body, a white pickguard, steel bridge saddles. Body shape was the standard “Telecaster” body shape, but only 1.5" thick (instead of the normal 1.75" thick). After the first few examples were made, the finish changed to butterscotch blond on a solid ash body and a black pickguard, and later two pickups (known as the “Double Esquire”). Most 1950 Single Esquires had no truss rod (no contrasting strip down back of maple neck). Though there are at least two 1950 single pickup butterscotch Esquires with a truss rod. > > Approximately sixty 1950 Esquires were shipped, though Fender had orders for hundreds at the time. And many early examples with no truss rod were returned to Fender for neck and/or body replacements (but the parts were kept). The reason? Without a truss rod many necks warped (or the owners thought they would warp in the future). Often the body was replaced too because the original non-truss rod Esquire body did not have the truss rod adjustment route between the neck pocket and the neck pickup. Or sometimes the truss rod adjustment route was hand chiseled. If the body wasn’t replaced or chiseled, the truss rod could only be adjusted if the neck was removed. This is why surviving examples of the original no-skunk-stripe (no truss rod) Esquires are difficult to find. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/26 "2013-11-15T15:36:37Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Checked out his site - oh, wow, is he connected. He’s got John Monteleone praising him as a protege and artist - in the world of archtop guitars, _no one_ has a better rep. His Four Seasons guitars were front and center at the Met’s exhibit on hand-crafted guitars (the Met is going to have a year-long exhibit on Martin and the birth of the American Guitar starting in January. Yay.) > > [http://blog.metmuseum.org/guitarheroes/archtop-guitars-the-four-seasons/](http://blog.metmuseum.org/guitarheroes/archtop-guitars-the-four-seasons/) I met Otto very briefly at the film premier, and he is a very nice guy. And he is just cranking away in a corner of an old textile mill in Pawtucket, RI - not exactly a music Mecca. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/27 "2013-11-15T15:54:18Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > I met Otto very briefly at the film premier, and he is a very nice guy. And he is just cranking away in a corner of an old textile mill in Pawtucket, RI - not exactly a music Mecca. Yeah, I believe it - only the tippy-top builders really make big $$, based on their wait list, capacity to work and prices. Given how many builders are out there, I am curious how many can treat it as their full-time/only job, and how much they clear as income. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/28 "2013-11-15T18:34:02Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I didn’t know about the guitars starting out as a bonus product, nor about the bowed necks and therefore mismatched serial numbers and dates. Interesting - if you can point me to where you learned that stuff, I would be interested in reading more… I wish I could give you a cite about the kits. I used to live across the street from a music shop and killed a lot of time reading the various magazines there. I also read about the real story behind the Gibson Les Paul guitar, which is somewhat different from the official or commonly accepted version. But that’s that “another story” I mentioned upthread. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904/29 "2013-11-15T18:45:33Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I wish I could give you a cite about the kits. I used to live across the street from a music shop and killed a lot of time reading the various magazines there. I also read about the real story behind the Gibson Les Paul guitar, which is somewhat different from the official or commonly accepted version. But that’s that “another story” I mentioned upthread. Okay. I can say I’ve read my share of Fender histories and haven’t heard about starting with Kits, but it’s a minor issue. About the only concern I might have is that “kit” seems to suggest that it was a hobbyist’s guitar, like Jobs and Woz starting out with the Apple 1 computer in kit form or something. When Broadcasters/Telecasters and Stratocasters were first introduced they were priced comparably, and even a bit more than with some models, Gibson Les Pauls. So Fender designed for manufacturability, but the guitars were positioned as professional instruments. I am sure we could compare notes about the origin of the LP - I have a pretty big vintage guitar book library 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-necks-shaping-them-back-in-the-day-by-hand-vs-now-computer-some-geekery/673904.md?page=1)