# Guitar Question - Should I always use a C/G instead of a C chord? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268 "2014-08-10T21:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/61 "2014-08-15T14:24:44Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > See, this is where I get concerned, that barre is sometimes called-for and sometimes not. If your friend is stuck in the view that that is \*the \*way to play the standard D then he is absolutely wrong, it’s not simply a matter of taste. It’s _guitar_ - there IS no right or wrong. It’s a “people’s instrument” - not classical piano or violin. To be clear: I totally agree with your POV; a three-finger open D is better. But if someone keeps playing and uses that other fingering, I care more about them keeping playing. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/62 "2014-08-15T14:27:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I have never understood why the low E string (or even the G on that string) is considered out of place for the ordinary C chord. E (or G) are in the major chord. Why wouldn’t they always sound okay? If you’re just strumming, they’re fine. If you’re finger picking or alternate bass picking (pluck 5th string, strum 4, 3, 2, 1 then pluck 6th string, strum 5, 4, 3, 2 ,1) well, the 5th or the root of a chord generally sounds better in the bass than the third. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/63 "2014-08-15T14:47:32Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > This is the famous “Sugar Mountain” chord, the first one heard in the song (though Neil tunes his guitar down a full step when he plays it). > > When he transitions from the first G chord back into this one, he plays two single A pickup notes. Don’t know if it’s how he did it, but I fret the E string at the fifth fret, then play the open A. So the first one rings out rather than getting choked by the second note. > > ETA: swampspruce, I think you mean x5403x, or maybe x54030! **DChord** , yes and no. Depending on the song I’ll use my index finger on the high E, or not and leave it open as you mention on “Sugar Mtn”. I’m learning Vertical Horizon’s 'Everything You Want" and I hammer on the 2e through the song to fill it out a little. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/64 "2014-08-15T14:57:38Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > And I have a friend who plays a standard D by barring the G, B and E strings rather than playing the G and E strings with his ring and middle finger. > [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > See, this is where I get concerned, that barre is sometimes called-for and sometimes not. If your friend is stuck in the view that that is \*the \*way to play the standard D then he is absolutely wrong, it’s not simply a matter of taste. I can see how barring G, B, and E and then using the middle on the B string and the ring on the D string can be a useful position. That’s how I play an Eb (xx5343)when I’m playing “open” chords and it’s a movable chord too. But the standard no barre 3 finger D is useful too. Try playing “Here Comes The Sun”, for example, without it. And I think it’s easier to not have to shift your thumb around from a barre bracing position to an open chord position. I suggest, bottom line, one should know both positions and it depends on what chords you’re playing before and after the D and what melody or bass lines you’re adding along with the D. What’s _right_ in one situation may not be in another. **Ranger Has Spoken!** > [@DChord568](#): > > It’s for this reason that when I’ve helped beginning guitarists out (informally), I try to get them to learn barre chords as soon as possible, so they can get a root on the bottom note for any chord with ease. How “beginning”? When I’ve started with a virgin guitarist, I try to hold off on the open F (x03211) or (x33211) for as long as possible. My reasoning is this: There are people who have learned to play the guitar. Thats folks like us. Then there are people who say “I took guitar lessons.” which means, to me, that they dropped learning the guitar. And I think what made them quit was the open F major chord. Learning to barre those strings for that chord is a difficult task to master. It takes a lot more practice than a G, D, C, etc… to get right without buzzing. The other chords are pretty easy to play the 2nd time you put your fingers on the right frets. Not that F, though. This is where muscle memory really comes in. And of course, if you can’t barre, well, you’re not going to have much success as a guitarist. So, what I’ll do is try to build up a beginner’s chord vocabulary with a lot of non-barre chords and songs in keys that don’t require barred chords at first. This is so when I introduce the F, they’ve invested enough time and effort in learning the guitar that they’re less tempted to say “I can’t do this!” and give up. On the other hand, and I suspect this is where you’re going, **DChord** , if I’m playing with a new guitarist who has already mastered the open F and maybe even the F#m forms, I’ll show them the full single barre and double barre chord positions. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/65 "2014-08-15T15:02:05Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > It’s _guitar_ - there IS no right or wrong. It’s a “people’s instrument” - not classical piano or violin. > > To be clear: I totally agree with your POV; a three-finger open D is better. But if someone keeps playing and uses that other fingering, I care more about them keeping playing. I’m inclined to stick with the “there is no right or wrong” statement and let it go at that. The three-finger open D is better in many cases, but the version that barres the first three strings makes it easier to use the little finger to fret the high E at the 5th fret, which is a nice sound. And concerning the three-finger D: most people play it XX0132, while James Taylor plays it XX0231. He plays open A similarly: X02310. This lets him do the pull and hammer of his signature riff with his index finger. However many ways there are to play a chord, learn 'em all, that’s what I think. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/66 "2014-08-15T15:08:28Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > It’s _guitar_ - there IS no right or wrong. It’s a “people’s instrument” - not classical piano or violin. > > To be clear: I totally agree with your POV; a three-finger open D is better. But if someone keeps playing and uses that other fingering, I care more about them keeping playing. Were you addressing me? My POV is \*not \*that the “three-finger open D is better”, there are certainly cases where it’s not appropriate at all. Context is everything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/67 "2014-08-15T15:11:09Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > that barre is sometimes called-for and sometimes not. > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > What’s _right_ in one situation may not be in another. **Ranger Has Spoken!**. Oh. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/68 "2014-08-15T15:37:27Z")
Sounds like we are all saying the same thing. As for Beginners, F-chords and Barre chords, my biggest priority is keeping the person playing. To me, that is ALL about Groove - if I can get them playing a groove using single string riffs or chords, then they have a great time - and are more able and willing to invest time on the finger strength, etc, required for tougher open and barre chords… ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/69 "2014-08-15T18:12:28Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > **DChord** , yes and no. Depending on the song I’ll use my index finger on the high E, or not and leave it open as you mention on “Sugar Mtn”. I’m learning Vertical Horizon’s 'Everything You Want" and I hammer on the 2e through the song to fill it out a little. The original chord you gave was x54032. So this means you must play it with your pinkie on the A string, ring finger on the D and index finger on the B? I’m so used to playing the “Sugar Mountain” chord by literally sliding a standard C up two frets that it didn’t occur to me to play it with this fingering. I guess my overall prejudice against this formation is showing again! ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/70 "2014-08-15T18:19:28Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > How “beginning”? When I’ve started with a virgin guitarist, I try to hold off on the open F (x03211) or (x33211) for as long as possible. > > My reasoning is this: There are people who have learned to play the guitar. Thats folks like us. Then there are people who say “I took guitar lessons.” which means, to me, that they dropped learning the guitar. And I think what made them quit was the open F major chord. Learning to barre those strings for that chord is a difficult task to master. It takes a lot more practice than a G, D, C, etc… to get right without buzzing. The other chords are pretty easy to play the 2nd time you put your fingers on the right frets. Not that F, though. This is where muscle memory really comes in. And of course, if you can’t barre, well, you’re not going to have much success as a guitarist. > > So, what I’ll do is try to build up a beginner’s chord vocabulary with a lot of non-barre chords and songs in keys that don’t require barred chords at first. This is so when I introduce the F, they’ve invested enough time and effort in learning the guitar that they’re less tempted to say “I can’t do this!” and give up. > > On the other hand, and I suspect this is where you’re going, **DChord** , if I’m playing with a new guitarist who has already mastered the open F and maybe even the F#m forms, I’ll show them the full single barre and double barre chord positions. I completely agree that the F chord is the most difficult of the “standard” chords for a novice guitarist to play, and would be among the last of them to be introduced. When I put forth learning barre chords “as soon as possible,” I meant “once the guitarist has mastered the basic chords.” F will be among the last of these for sure. Again, it’s just me, but I find it far easier to play a full 133211 (as noted, most of the time I hook my thumb around the low E string) than I do xx3211. And it sounds a lot better, too. Every guitarist’s finger stretch and dexterity will be different, but if they’re able to get to this formation sooner rather than later, it can only help them when the time comes for Ab, Bb, etc. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/71 "2014-08-15T19:28:07Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > The original chord you gave was x54032. So this means you must play it with your pinkie on the A string, ring finger on the D and index finger on the B? > > I’m so used to playing the “Sugar Mountain” chord by literally sliding a standard C up two frets that it didn’t occur to me to play it with this fingering. I guess my overall prejudice against this formation is showing again! Again, depends on the song. I play it both ways depending on the progression. I do the same with G at the first position. sometimes I’ll use i,m,r most of the time but I also use m,r p. This allows me to do fills and runs different ways depending on what works best… ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/72 "2014-08-15T21:42:22Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I’m inclined to stick with the “there is no right or wrong” statement and let it go at that. The three-finger open D is better in many cases, but the version that barres the first three strings makes it easier to use the little finger to fret the high E at the 5th fret, which is a nice sound. And concerning the three-finger D: most people play it XX0132, while James Taylor plays it XX0231. He plays open A similarly: X02310. This lets him do the pull and hammer of his signature riff with his index finger. However many ways there are to play a chord, learn 'em all, that’s what I think. XX0132 … D-Ab-D-F# - not a D-Major. Did you mean XX0232, which is the standard open-D chord? XX0231 is D-minor X02310 … A-E-Bb-C-E - A-minor with a diminished 2nd? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/73 "2014-08-15T21:47:15Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > XX0132 … D-Ab-D-F# - not a D-Major. Did you mean XX0232, which is the standard open-D chord? > > XX0231 is D-minor > > X02310 … A-E-Bb-C-E - A-minor with a diminished 2nd? He’s talking about what fingers to use to play the x00232 D chord and the 002220 A chord, not the fretting. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/74 "2014-08-15T22:00:47Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > He’s talking about what fingers to use to play the x00232 D chord and the 002220 A chord, not the fretting. Gotcha - that makes much more sense! ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/75 "2014-08-15T23:52:35Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > XX0132 … D-Ab-D-F# - not a D-Major. Did you mean XX0232, which is the standard open-D chord? > > XX0231 is D-minor > > X02310 … A-E-Bb-C-E - A-minor with a diminished 2nd? > [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > He’s talking about what fingers to use to play the x00232 D chord and the 002220 A chord, not the fretting. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Gotcha - that makes much more sense! Why don’t we agree on a convention here. The SD Chord Fingering and Fretting Convention. It’ll work like this… Here’s a Chord Fretting example of a Gsus4: 320013 Here’s a Chord Fingering example of the same Gsus4: RM00IP Where I=Index finger, M=Middle finger, R=Ring finger, and P=Pinky finger. Is there a better name for the Pinky? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268/76 "2014-08-16T00:28:35Z")
Nah, I don’t like that. In my lifetime of instrument playing, the fingers have always been numbered. If distinction were needed, finger numbers can be put in parentheses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitar-question-should-i-always-use-a-c-g-instead-of-a-c-chord/695268.md?page=3)