# Guitarists, can you explain this move to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251 "2016-08-28T09:42:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/1 "2016-08-28T09:42:50Z")
I see this performed quite a bit during live appearances and videos and such, but I can’t figure out if there’s a reason why it’s done, or just to look cool. Let’s use the classic version of [“Black Betty”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OFF3q4Pxk&list=RDV0OFF3q4Pxk) by Ram Jam. At the 18-second mark, the guitarist hits a note, and while sustaining it, moves the guitar up and down while moving it from resting against his waist. Difficult to describe, I know. Though I’m sure there’s at least a slang term for it. But does doing this actually change the sound, or is it just for shits and giggles? ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/2 "2016-08-28T09:57:03Z")
Probably some variation of _Neck Vibrato_. The neck bending reduces and increases tension in the strings, making the notes go flat and sharp. Neck Vibrato can produce vibrato when a chord has been played, as opposed to string vibrato. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/3 "2016-08-28T10:59:13Z")
> [@si\_blakely](#): > > Probably some variation of _Neck Vibrato_. > > The neck bending reduces and increases tension in the strings, making the notes go flat and sharp. Neck Vibrato can produce vibrato when a chord has been played, as opposed to string vibrato. Not in this case, no. Some players do grab a guitar’s headstock and push and pull on it to act like a vibrato - in an interview I read in the 70’s and for some reason still remember, Pat Travers discussed finding old Gibson Melody Makers perfect for this. This guy’s just got moves ;). Some folks argue that holding the body away from your body enables it to vibrate more freely and sustain longer. That can happen with an acoustic guitar - and if you waggle an acoustic while notes are ringing, you can sell a bit of vibrato. But a solidbody, at full volume? Nah. In an earlier thread I discussed how players come up with “groove moves” - motions that they use to stay in the groove and not overplay. Look at what he does - he hits a sustaining note, substitutes his move for additional playing, then hits the next note. He’s keeping himself honest. After a while, when you gig a bit, you start trying to make your moves look a bit flash ;). My take on it. ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/4 "2016-08-28T13:17:59Z")
Another possibility is that his guitar wasn’t hanging comfortably and he’s just adjusting it - by lifting the guitar to take all the weight off the strap, so that friction doesn’t pull the strap off either end of the guitar. Nowadays we have better ways of attaching a guitar strap than the narrow button you see in this video, which was always one step away from disaster. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/5 "2016-08-28T14:31:02Z")
That’s true. We all have our tics when it comes to shifting a strap or having the guitar cord loop out a certain way between the input jack and the strap. He could be doing an “in the groove adjustment” vs. a “groove move” specifically intended to slow his playing down. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/6 "2016-08-28T14:47:01Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Not in this case, no. Some players do grab a guitar’s headstock and push and pull on it to act like a vibrato - in an interview I read in the 70’s and for some reason still remember, Pat Travers discussed finding old Gibson Melody Makers perfect for this. > > This guy’s just got moves ;). Some folks argue that holding the body away from your body enables it to vibrate more freely and sustain longer. That can happen with an acoustic guitar - and if you waggle an acoustic while notes are ringing, you can sell a bit of vibrato. **But a solidbody, at full volume? Nah.** > > In an earlier thread I discussed how players come up with “groove moves” - motions that they use to stay in the groove and not overplay. Look at what he does - he hits a sustaining note, substitutes his move for additional playing, then hits the next note. He’s keeping himself honest. After a while, when you gig a bit, you start trying to make your moves look a bit flash ;). > > My take on it. (Bolding mine) I bend my guitar necks. I also bend strings while playing chords. But I agree that in this case, the dude is just doing a bit of a flash move. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/7 "2016-08-28T14:56:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > (Bolding mine) > > I bend my guitar necks. I also bend strings while playing chords. > > But I agree that in this case, the dude is just doing a bit of a flash move. I was speaking to the act of hitting a chord or note, then holding the guitar out from your body so it can ring more. That can have an effect when you play an acoustic, especially if you waggle it back and forth a little while holding it up at the nut and end-body strap peg. It _can_ ring a bit more and you get a bit of tremolo (I think is the more-accurate term) when you waggle it. But with an electric when the amp is producing the volume, holding the guitar away from your body is not going to affect sustain. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/8 "2016-08-28T14:56:22Z")
It takes force to do neckbends, which he’s not applying there. Nor does it look like he’s adjusting the strap to me. And resonance for a solid body, with electronic pickups? Yeah, not buying it. I’ll go with flash. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/9 "2016-08-28T15:03:01Z")
The neck on my homebrew Tele is Eastern Hardrock Maple, 1" thick at the apex of the neck-profile curve, at both the nut end and at the 12th fret. No one is bending it anytime soon. 😉 It’s a trick best done with thin profile, one-piece mahogany necks, on guitars where the neck joint is pretty clear, i.e., a double-cutaway like a Melody Maker or an SG. I have no interest. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/10 "2016-08-28T15:04:18Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I was speaking to the act of hitting a chord or note, then holding the guitar out from your body so it can ring more. That can have an effect when you play an acoustic, especially if you waggle it back and forth a little while holding it up at the nut and end-body strap peg. It _can_ ring a bit more and you get a bit of tremolo (I think is the more-accurate term) when you waggle it. > > But with an electric when the amp is producing the volume, holding the guitar away from your body is not going to affect sustain. I didn’t realize you were talking about sustain; I thought you were still commenting on vibrato. Mega culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/11 "2016-08-28T15:07:30Z")
Yeah, that’s a style thing. While yes, moving the guitar like that will alter the string vibrations a small amount, I can’t imagine it’s enough to significantly alter the sound. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/12 "2016-08-28T15:12:24Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > The neck on my homebrew Tele is Eastern Hardrock Maple, 1" thick at the apex of the neck-profile curve, at both the nut end and at the 12th fret. > > No one is bending it anytime soon. 😉 > > It’s a trick best done with thin profile, one-piece mahogany necks, on guitars where the neck joint is pretty clear, i.e., a double-cutaway like a Melody Maker or an SG. I have no interest. Dude, I bend the neck on my '72 Les Paul Custom. I haven’t met a guitar neck that I can’t bend. I have developed some [del]bad habits[/del] unique skills over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/13 "2016-08-28T15:41:50Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > In an earlier thread I discussed how players come up with “groove moves” - motions that they use to stay in the groove and not overplay. Look at what he does - he hits a sustaining note, substitutes his move for additional playing, then hits the next note. He’s keeping himself honest. After a while, when you gig a bit, you start trying to make your moves look a bit flash ;). > > My take on it. That’s exactly what I was thinking, we discussed exactly that same move in the Prince thread. I think we found multiple example of Prince doing that. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/14 "2016-08-28T16:20:07Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s exactly what I was thinking, we discussed exactly that same move in the Prince thread. I think we found multiple example of Prince doing that. That’s where it was! Thank you! **Bo** , I am not letting you near my Tele ;). Hulk smash. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/15 "2016-08-28T17:12:18Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I see this performed quite a bit during live appearances and videos and such, but I can’t figure out if there’s a reason why it’s done, or just to look cool. > > Let’s use the classic version of [“Black Betty”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OFF3q4Pxk&list=RDV0OFF3q4Pxk) by Ram Jam. At the 18-second mark, the guitarist hits a note, and while sustaining it, moves the guitar up and down while moving it from resting against his waist. > > Difficult to describe, I know. Though I’m sure there’s at least a slang term for it. > > But does doing this actually change the sound, or is it just for shits and giggles? Guitar playing is a bodily activity. It looks and sounds to me like he’s following through on a note by shifting the guitar which moves his finger slightly too, giving a small arc to the sound, and making it more natural. I don’t see it as non-musical anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/16 "2016-08-28T17:54:16Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I see this performed quite a bit during live appearances and videos and such, but I can’t figure out if there’s a reason why it’s done, or just to look cool. > > Let’s use the classic version of [“Black Betty”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OFF3q4Pxk&list=RDV0OFF3q4Pxk) by Ram Jam. At the 18-second mark, the guitarist hits a note, and while sustaining it, moves the guitar up and down while moving it from resting against his waist. > > Difficult to describe, I know. Though I’m sure there’s at least a slang term for it. > > But does doing this actually change the sound, or is it just for shits and giggles? As soon as I read the title of the song, I _knew_ what move you were refering to :D. And I’m also in the “it just looks cool” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/17 "2016-08-28T18:21:31Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Guitar playing is a bodily activity. It looks and sounds to me like he’s following through on a note by shifting the guitar which moves his finger slightly too, giving a small arc to the sound, and making it more natural. I don’t see it as non-musical anyway. Here’s the clip of [Prince doing it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y). It happens just after the 4:30 mark. Before WordMan showed up in the other thread, my guess was the Prince was adjust the strap, it looks a bit awkward and, to me anyways, there’s way too much going on to tell if, Prince specifically, his holding a note when he does that (but doesn’t sound like it). However, there are other times both in that clip and in other solos (Superbowl, maybe) where he does the exact same thing. Whatever it is, why ever he does it, he’s not doing it by accident. I mean, even it it’s a ‘tic’ just to keep his hands off the strings for a beat or two, he clearly knew what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/18 "2016-08-28T18:53:30Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Here’s the clip of [Prince doing it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y). It happens just after the 4:30 mark. Before WordMan showed up in the other thread, my guess was the Prince was adjust the strap, it looks a bit awkward and, to me anyways, there’s way too much going on to tell if, Prince specifically, his holding a note when he does that (but doesn’t sound like it). However, there are other times both in that clip and in other solos (Superbowl, maybe) where he does the exact same thing. Whatever it is, why ever he does it, he’s not doing it by accident. I mean, even it it’s a ‘tic’ just to keep his hands off the strings for a beat or two, he clearly knew what he was doing. I don’t want to overthink it. It seems like he’s playing with his body. I certainly don’t think it’s something done just for looks. Anything you can hear is something they can feel. If it wasn’t about feel it wouldn’t be an art form. It would be kind of unsatisfying if they just made motions explainable by ergonomic analysis. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/19 "2016-08-28T19:01:47Z")
Exactly (meant for **Joey P’s** post). I give you exhibit #1: \*\*B.B. King \*\* - [B.B. King Thrill Is Gone November 25 1971 - YouTube](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pC4DDkye8FU) BB is…well, he’s _BB King_. Now watch that video. The dude’s a knob-twiddler. He’s not _doing anything_ with his actions - he’s not dialing in his sound; the adjustments don’t have a material effect on his tone (the travel isn’t enough given his settings). But he clearly _needs_ to twiddle those knobs (heh), and you can’t tell me that it isn’t an essential part of who BB is as a player. He’s focusing on _not_ playing, and the twiddling is keeping his hands busy. I am not trying to make my case here. The case is plain. I think the Ram Jam fella is doing something similar. By the way: love his tone and that old 'burst Les Paul that got refin’d and modified along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251/20 "2016-08-29T04:59:04Z")
The slight pitch bend effect he got could have been done with just a finger on his left hand. The move was just flash. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-can-you-explain-this-move-to-me/764251.md?page=2)