# Gulf Oil Spill: Joe Barton's "Shakedown" Comment, Obama F'ing Up Again **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626 "2010-06-26T21:11:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/21 "2010-06-26T23:09:54Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > The $20 billion payout by BP for damages related to the Deepwater Horizon oil spill was the result of a very controversial move by the Obama Administration, in which the White House effectively ignored established legal due process and assessed the extent of BP’s liability on its own, then ordered the company to pony up the cash. Obama succumbed to political pressure to “do something” and “show anger”. The meetings with BP were in private so we cannot know exactly what was said. > > Webster’s dictionary defines “shakedown” as an extortion of money. Some others call it obtaining something of value from someone under duress and by threat. > > Clearly, the word “shakedown” applies. Obama had threatened BP “to plug the $%# hole,” and had approved investigators from the Justice Department to begin looking at possible criminal charges arising out of the accident. > > One would guess various threats, intimidation, and the like were utilized to extract the twenty billion dollars from BP. What is clear however, is that whether or not BP complied, it is still illegal. > > It is also immoral in so many ways. So now the Federal Government has this “slush fund”. Do we really think that they will somehow justly compensate all the property owners and fishermen who’s lives and businesses have been ruined by the spill? Only a court could justly determine damages and compensate those who were hurt. > > The whole notion of this extortion of money from BP is ridiculous. First the Federal Government does nothing. Then when they finally act, they pull unconstitutional shenanigans like this. Its ridiculous. What’s ridiculous is your utterly delusional take on the situation. BP promised to pay every claim before the Escrow. Then they agreed to pay 1.25 billion per quarter into an escrow fund to make sure that money is available quickly to the claimants. Then they set up a third party to dole out the funds, so that it was clear that BP (who has an interest in not paying) wasn’t in charge. This is so far from the paranoid drivel you just posted it’s almost laughable. You are not looking at the situation through a clear glass. You’re seeing it through your ideological hate of the administration. And it’s pretty fucking obvious to everyone. Except Sam. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Urban\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@The\_Urban\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Urban_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/22 "2010-06-26T23:16:02Z")
If you’re going to plagiarise Andrew Napolitano, at least make an effort to be discreet about it. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/23 "2010-06-26T23:17:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Got it in one! :rolleyes: I’m not surprised one bit. I’m not defending Joe Barton. I’m saying that this extortion of money was wrong and all people and companies are deserving of legal protections and due process. > [@](#): > > This would normally be handled by the courts, yes. Unfortunately a lot of lives and business would be ruined in the years it would take for court cases to resolve themselves. And I doubt they would end up paying anything close to the value of the damage they caused. The administration did not force BP to do anything, and they did the right thing. So, the laws can be discarded when they are inconvenient? That is basically what you are saying. Besides what makes you think that the government is going to really be effective in distributing this money to the people who were hurt by the oil catastrophe? What on earth would give you that confidence? I’ll give you my prediction of what will happen: A lot of people will make claims to that money, even when they weren’t actually hurt by the crisis in any substantial way. A lot of bureaucrats will take some off the top and the people who were hurt the most won’t get anything. Since there is no legal way to determine damages if we leave the courts out of the situation, it will become pure chaos. I’m sure you are smart enough to see that this will happen. Besides the critical issue now is stopping the flow of oil and cleaning up the gulf. This really effects everyone. That is where the focus should be. I don’t think for a minute that it would take years to resolve the court cases. It would just be a legal framework for determining damages and resolving who will get the money. It should take as long as necessary to get it right. But obviously the total damage cannot be estimated until the leak is fixed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/24 "2010-06-26T23:18:20Z")
Oh, so now its a “slush fund”, is it? Says who? Outside of your rock solid innuendos and insinuations, have you anything like proof? Admittedly, the opportunities for creative rhetoric are limited by such requirements, but we are rather fond of proof, nonetheless. As for the executive branch determining damages and culpability outside the proper venue of the courts, who says its either/or? You yourself declare that the actual damages are certainly going to exceed 20 billion dollars. You are almost certainly right, but I have yet to see any evidence offered that the court system has been circumvented. Perhaps your expertise in matters of such constitutional law exceed the expertise of Mr. Obama. Do you think that likely? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/25 "2010-06-26T23:20:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, so now its a “slush fund”, is it? Says who? Outside of your rock solid innuendos and insinuations, have you anything like proof? Admittedly, the opportunities for creative rhetoric are limited by such requirements, but we are rather fond of proof, nonetheless. > > Perhaps your expertise in matters of such constitutional law exceed the expertise of Mr. Obama. Do you think that likely? Well, the OP IS a libertarian. If he thinks taxes are theft and government action is always wrong, it’s not a big stretch to imagine him sincerely picturing Obama rubbing his hands and chuckling as he steals money right from the hands of desperate Gulf residents. And, as a libertarian, he probably DOES think he knows more about the Constitution than Obama, or any other government official for that matter. Remember, to them, the government has been trampling all over it for practically its entire history. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/26 "2010-06-26T23:21:46Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > So, the laws can be discarded when they are inconvenient? That is basically what you are saying. Besides what makes you think that the government is going to really be effective in distributing this money to the people who were hurt by the oil catastrophe? Haven’t you ever heard of the concept of an emergency situation? And, in case it slipped your mind “the courts” ARE the government. > [@jrodefeld](#): > > I don’t think for a minute that it would take years to resolve the court cases. We are talking billions of dollars here; of course it would take years. Many years. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/27 "2010-06-26T23:24:14Z")
Oh, a libertarian. Gosh, I didn’t now that. Sorry. How embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/28 "2010-06-26T23:24:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is what liberal ‘debate’ has turned into on this board… The OP started no debate, he was _witnessing_: [QUOTE=jrodefeld] Since you all know how I feel about Obama, let me make a few points that are on my mind. [/QUOTE] If **jrodefeld** wishes to witness about what a studmuffin Jindal has been, it’s utterly appropriate to point out that the governor is in fact, a grandstanding asshole. It’s hardly necessary that we of the reality based community take every spittle flecked diatribe from every tom dick and harry as an invitation to serious ‘debate’. Most of them constitute no such thing, and should be treated in the spirit with which they are offered. So how come Jindal won’t deploy those 5,000 federal troops to clean the beaches? It seems like a no brainer, don’t you think? Maybe someone could start an actual debate about whether the governor is doing enough to clean up the oil. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/29 "2010-06-26T23:24:41Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So you’re asserting the ONLY way BP could’ve agreed to the escrow account was if they were threatened? Honestly, this is exactly the reason I laugh (perhaps “scoff” is a more appropriate term) at the whole stupid “shakedown” line of attacking the Obama admin. Court cases are for when resolution can’t be reached another way, not the means of first resort. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/30 "2010-06-26T23:29:48Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > I don’t think for a minute that it would take years to resolve the court cases. That you don’t think that for a minute suggests you don’t understand complex systems. How many courts are there? How many claims are going to be made? How long will each resolution take? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/31 "2010-06-26T23:31:38Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > …It’s hardly necessary that we of the reality based community take every spittle flecked diatribe from every tom dick and harry as an invitation to serious ‘debate’. Most of them constitute no such thing, and should be treated in the spirit with which they are offered… Earth - flat or round? Let’s hear both sides… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/32 "2010-06-26T23:32:49Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > First off, I don’t know Joe Barton. For all I know he may be completely sold out to oil interests and determined to protect BP at all cost. Congressman [Joe Barton,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Barton) before he was in Congress, used to work for [ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Oil & Gas Company),](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Richfield) a subsidiary of BP; and, since 1989, he has taken more than $1.4 million in campaign contributions from the oil industry. So, yeah, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/33 "2010-06-26T23:32:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@jrodefeld](#): > > > > I don’t think for a minute that it would take years to resolve the court cases. > > We are talking billions of dollars here; of course it would take years. Many years. Of course it will take many years. Past history (_aka_ Exxon Valdez) says at least 20. And the current spill is far worse, more complex, and will take longer to sort out in court. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/34 "2010-06-26T23:33:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Earth - flat or round? Let’s hear both sides… She’s a-round, like-a the apple-a! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/35 "2010-06-26T23:37:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > She’s a-round, like-a the apple-a! Flat-a, like-a the pancake! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/36 "2010-06-26T23:40:15Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > I don’t think for a minute that it would take years to resolve the court cases. How long do you predict it would take? > [@](#): > > It would just be a legal framework for determining damages and resolving who will get the money. Am I misunderstanding this/you? Isn’t that a presumption of guilt on BP’s part? I thought you were against that? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/37 "2010-06-26T23:43:16Z")
Well, “who wlll get the money” doesn’t exactly specify, maybe BP can sue Obama for slander or something, and the Feds will have to settle for damage to BP’s reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/38 "2010-06-26T23:46:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, “who wlll get the money” doesn’t exactly specify, maybe BP can sue Obama for slander or something, and the Feds will have to settle for damage to BP’s reputation. They’ll sue the sea birds for contaminating their oil with their feathers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/39 "2010-06-26T23:47:09Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Of course it will take many years. Past history (_aka_ Exxon Valdez) says at least 20. And the current spill is far worse, more complex, and will take longer to sort out in court. Heh-heh. Yes. Yes, it will. 😃 – BrainGlutton, Esq. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gulf-oil-spill-joe-bartons-shakedown-comment-obama-fing-up-again/544626/40 "2010-06-27T00:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > You seem to be confusing Bush and Obama…except that he took over countries instead of corporations. :rolleyes: Their both bad. You gotta stop making that argument given that Obama is continuing to occupy those countries that Bush took over. And, as far as I know, liberals such as yourself want reasonable regulations on the free market, not government ownership of industry and intervening in market on every whim. I hope you don’t believe that. > [@](#): > > Translation: as a libertarian, you want every scam artist who comes out of the woodwork to be allowed to suck up as much money as he can, regardless of the consequences. We’ve been through this before. You’re general fear of freedom seems to me to be based on false history taught about the evils of the “unfettered” free market based on made up tales of horror and suffering at the hands of evil businessmen, who were seeking “profit” (horrors!). Never mind that in a free market, businesses seek profit by provided goods and services that consumers want and add to society as a whole and boosts everyones standard of living. By the way, what “consequences” are you talking about from small business owners and entrepreneurs having access to the gulf and seeing if they can solve the leak or clean up the oil? It seems to me that we would have a greater chance of solving this mess if the “regulations” and red tape preventing human ingenuity were suspended. > [@](#): > > Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. In this case, your untrammeled free market would result in ecological devastation, and wouldn’t do anything about alternative energies until there was a general collapse. The free market has no foresight and no concern for anything but profit. Yeah, ecological devastation, as opposed to what we have now. Some of you liberals are funny, man. You defend to the end the same kind of federal intervention and central planning and “partnership” with business that we have pursued for many decades even as we are witnessing the horrendous results in front of our eyes. Yet, instead of considering a compelling alternative, you cling to these horror stories about how it would be even worse if we trusted freedom. Give me a break. Here’s how you can look at it: Everyone naturally looks out for their own self interest to a certain level, right? Every businessman started out looks to make a living and do well, right? What is wrong with that? Does he do well by selling poisonous foods, treating his employees badly and not providing good customer service? Of course not. This would hurt his profits. He would lose customers. Profits are the real time feedback that the citizens provide in order to determine which companies succeed and which ones fail. The consumers are king. Many business owners want to make a decent living but they really want to help people and provide a product or service that will enhance the lives of the average person. It is from this entrepreneurial spirit where we will make breakthroughs which will create energy independence and possibly save the planet. This hasn’t happened due to regulations and subsidies to favored industries and government restrictions. If we had a free market in energy we would see alternative fuels take off in a matter of a few years. You trust the government to get us off fossil fuel? Why? Every president since Nixon has been promising energy independence. Yet, we continue to subsidize oil and fight wars to protect oil. Oil is a cartel that has captured government to kill off competitors and protect its own profits. Thats why you cannot claim that BP, Exxon Mobile, and the rest are a result of Free Markets. They are the farthest thing from free markets. When businesses turn tyrannical for real, is when they capture the market by capturing the government. That is the problem. By forcing free markets to exist in the energy market, we take power _away_ from the oil companies and give it to the small businesses and alternatives fuel makers. > [@](#): > > He’s President and a politician, not a dictator or an engineer. What makes you think he could do that, or would actually know what to do if he directly intervened? You misunderstood. I am saying he could eliminate red tape and permit requirements that are preventing local people and engineers from taking the action necessary to protect their beaches. There are numerous reports of people waiting days for permits to protect their property while the spill gets exponentially worse. This is a travesty. This is something Obama could immediately fix. Just provide backup for the locals to do what they need to to protect their land. Seems reasonable, yet appears to be too much to ask from these clowns. > [@](#): > > For him to be worse than the combined team of McCain/Palin would have been. I voted for him, but I never liked him or thought he agreed with me on much. First, you don’t know how bad McCain/Palin would be. I am sure they would have been pretty bad, but I doubt anyone could be worse than Obama has been so far. I don’t blame you for voting for Obama, many were fooled into thinking he was different from the typical politician. You should come over to my side, not the libertarian side, but the side that realizes that there is virtually zero difference between Republicans and Democrats. Our government is broken and the system needs to be overhauled. But seriously, forget this dude. It is over for Obama. I don’t see how in hell he is going to recover. I wonder how it feels to be president when the entire country falls apart. 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