How, exactly? E.g., could you name a country whose system you consider a good example for the U.S. to emulate? What do you think we need? Campaign-finance reform? Proportional representation? Parliamentary government?
That’s a nice sentiment, but there is a bigger issue here. Can’t you see that those of us who defend the Constitution and the rule of law are not defending BP? If you say, well its the right thing to do in this case, it sets a bad precedent.
Even so as I said earlier, what gives you confidence in the governments ability to justly distribute this money to the people who have been legitimately hurt by this crisis? If you think they will do a good job with that, then you certainly have much more faith in government than I do.
Secondly, the damages go way beyond twenty million. What happens next? With they continue to extract money endlessly? Will they bypass the courts entirely?
Gonzomax, I would hope you would have a little more respect for the rule of law than what your post indicates.
So you think he is so callous as to not want to protect his state from the effects of the oil spill? I don’t like Bobby Jindal either, but he, as well as many others wanted to and could have built barriers to protect the coastline, but did not get permission in time.
Are you going to be so partisan as to deny reality?
From ABC News:
**As thick oil flows into the sensitive marshes of the Louisiana coast, Gov. Bobby Jindal called on the White House and BP today to either stop the oil spill or get out of his way.
Gov. Bobby Jindal warns BP and the White House to help or get out of his way.
Jindal is still waiting for the federal government to provide millions of feet in boom and to approve an emergency permit for a state plan to dredge and build new barrier islands to keep the oil from reaching the marshes and wetlands.
Jindal is so desperate for the islands, he’s said he’ll build them even if it sends him to jail.
“We’ve been frustrated with the disjointed effort to date that has too often meant too little, too late for the oil hitting our coast,” Jindal said.
Jindal Calls for More Help
Jindal warned that the state’s entire shoreline could end up polluted with black sludge if he doesn’t get more help, immediately.
“It is clear we don’t have the resources we need to protect our coast,” the Republican said. “We need more boom, more skimmers, more vacuums, more jack-up barges that are still in short supply. Let’s be clear: Every day that this oil sits is one more day that more of our marsh dies.”
**
There are Republican and Democrat politicians of Gulf states who are going through the same things with the lackluster support, and active obstruction, from Washington.
Put down the partisan bullshit for a change. You want to play partisan games while this oil devastates the Gulf and destroys our beaches? So much of this could have been prevented or the effects mitigated if Obama and Washington responded early and provided proper assistance.
As to “the party of BP”, quit the fucking bullshit. The Democrats are the party of BP too. BP supports Cap and Trade.
http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article209369.ece?WT.mc_id=rechargenews_rss
You’re not even living in reality man.
You are confusing “major economic disaster” with “whim”.
Garbage. In an unfettered free market, society degenerates to neofeudalism or an outright slave state. Wealth become concentrated in the hands of a few, the general population become impoverished and powerless. The primary function of the government becomes to prevent a rebellion by the people; far from being about freedom, libertarianism is as anti-freedom as any fascist or communist regime. As well, pollution and disasters become the norm as safety and the environment are ignored in the name of profit.
And no, I’m not against profit; but I don’t regard it as some sort of holy icon, either. The same goes for property rights, another libertarian bugaboo.
Making matters worse, and sucking up money that might actually solve the problem. Deliberately prolonging the disaster in order to profit from it more.
This is an aberration; an unrestricted free market would see this sort of disaster as the norm.
Handing all money and power over to the wealthy and removing all restraint from them is plutocracy, not freedom.
Of course he does. We know, because that and worse is exactly what they have done whenever they could get away with it.
Which is the free market in action. The strong crush the weak by any means available.
No; the bigger companies would crush or take over the little ones. Monopolies are the natural end state of a free market.
Of course they could; and we’d be in less of a position to do anything about it because we’d be in a second Great Depression.
There’s plenty of difference. The Democrats are corrupt, cowardly scum; the Republicans are outright fools, morons, bigots, thugs and lunatics. Since in practical terms those are my only two choices, I vote for the scum every time.
It feels like being Bush. Obama is what it feels like to inherit the debris.
You aren’t defending the constitution. You’re defending your misunderstanding of the constitution. Obama understands constitutional issues more than you ever will.
Who do you think runs the courts? Also, it is a third party that will distribute the money.
Yes. Although at the rate they’ve been paying out it is unlikely to come out to more than 20 billion for damages.
I would think you’d have respect for people who understand the situation better than you do.
Quote of the thread.
My son-in-law is in law school now, and he has been taking some classes on maritime law. Settle this early and you’re going to be taking bread from his mouth.
You’re going to have to elaborate on that if you want to be taken seriously. Every single thing in that paragraph is true and verifiable.
I didn’t say they shouldn’t be organized efficiently or “marshalled”, as you say. But there are literal hundreds of entrepreneurs and businessmen and engineers who are skilled and know how to deal with oil spills yet they are turned away. BP has had a crack at it, maybe we could let a few other people have a shot?
As to that crack a libertarian thought, you need to read a bit more before you can claim to really understand libertarian philosophy. I have read volumes of books on freedom and economics and the workings of the free market. What have you read? To take a condescending tone with me, your solution must be working out great. Yet it isn’t.
You pretty much nailed it. That is not uncommon however. Many people lack decent debate skills. I think the real issue is that it is becoming harder and harder to defend Obama with every passing month. People especially hate it when you are a third party advocate so they can’t pigeonhole you into the classical left right paradigm that people are so comfortable with. Essentially, people can’t deal with someone who doesn’t like Bush AND Obama. They don’t know how to react.
:rolleyes: People “know how to react” just fine. We just don’t agree with you; hard as it seems to be for libertarians to understand, many people understand libertarianism just fine and consider it to be unworkable, foolish or outright evil. “Understand” and “agree” are not synonyms.
Rubbish? I have plenty of facts to back up that rubbish. And no, so far I don’t think many have put as much effort into responding as I did in posting the OP.
Give it a good shot, if you want.
This is not a very serious post. If you are not going to add anything constructive, don’t even bother. If you want to respond in an intelligent way, you can try again. Just don’t waste my time.
No, there are things Obama can do. I don’t expect the Federal Government to know how to plug a leak. But, like I have said, they can provide assistance to the locals, lift red tape and permit requirements and provide leadership. This qualifies as a national emergency. They have to stay within the law however.
In a case like this, time is of the essence. Quick action is required. The window of opportunity to mitigate the disastrous effects of this spill is gone. Obama missed it.
I don’t doubt you’ve read stuff. I do doubt you understood it. As for “my solution” it is probably working as well as anything is likely to. You can’t have a bunch of guys flying off half cocked.
There are thousands of boats in the effort, do you really think the effects are scaling linearly with number? Think of the different elements that need to be managed: Available boom, boom that needs to be fixed, fuel for the boats, trained crews for the burn-offs, currents, weather reports, scientific survey ships, beach cleanups and the people available to do them. You need to not have people standing around to pick up three pieces of tar. You need to wait until the beach is worth people going to.
It’s complex. They are doing it as fast as they can with the resources that are available. Some yahoo with a bullshit centrifuge is worthless. This isn’t a slick pouring out of a ship, it’s gigantic and low density.
So the people who are whining about bullshit skimmers don’t understand the issue.
As an aside, the berms Jindal wants to build won’t work.
Not remotely true. The best thing Obama could have done was prevent the gulf from becoming an Exxon Valdez mistake with people waiting decades to get help. He got BP to pay 20 bill up front to give the people immediate help. It was an important move. Then he got an intermediary to monitor the payouts. He does have to take time to make sure con artists don’t take advantage. Just throwing money at it would have resulted in thieves taking advantage. It was less than 60 days when he got the fund started. The Valdez was over 20 years.
Obama also sent 17,000 National Guard troops to help with the cleanup.
Troops which Bobby “Why Won’t Obama DO Something?!” Jindal hasn’t even come close to deploying in full. Or even in half.
But to do what? What are National Guard troops trained to do that might be useful in this situation? There are no riots to control, just a slowly growing cloud of dead water. Are they trained to clean the Very, Very Brown Pelican, or the Oily Egret? Is there some labor intensive approach to removing oil from marsh lands? If evaporating oil represents some sort of toxic hazard, have we ten thousand respirators to deploy? Or are we willing to risk their health in a futile display of Doing Something?
Well, thats because conservative views cannot get a fair hearing on a liberal msg board, where intelligent conservative views are shouted down.
Alas!
So they should ignore the laws and lift permit requirements…as long as they stay within the law. Good plan.