# "Gun control" is hitting what you aim at **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 1999, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985 "1999-08-11T18:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/1 "1999-08-12T05:25:00Z")
Another thread on “gun control” on the Great Debates forum. Ho hum. “Natural” rights, Constitutional rights, the Federalist Papers, etc., have all been cited in defense of private gun ownership before, and undoubtedly will be again. These are just pretexts and rationalizations, however; the _real_ reason for the “gun ownership” meme is simple and entirely different. Without guns, the U.S. would be Canada with warm weather. And not even the most dedicated left-wing symp would want _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/2 "1999-08-12T05:35:00Z")
Oh, come on! I hear that Canada is a paradise. The citizens need only to blow a whistle or ring a bell and the government (well funded by high taxes) comes running to solve their every problem. Being held up at gun point? The government will stop the buillet. Don’t want to work? Here comes a check! Break your leg? The gov’t can mend it. Why the hell should the goddam lousy good-for-nothing citizens be allowed to make decisions or have rights anyway? THey would just abuse them. Only government officials are trustworthy and moral. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/3 "1999-08-11T18:16:00Z")
Right on, Zamb! We want NO government interference in our lives! Creeping socialism, thass what it is – gummint telling us what to do and how to behave. Streets, for example, and traffic laws! What right has the gummint got to tell me where I can drive and where I can’t drive? The Constitution gave me the right to a four-wheel drive jeep, so I can drive over your lawn if I feel like it. And think of all the gov’t waste, painting lines on the roads, putting up traffic signs and signals, all interfering with MY freedom to move about as I please! Or the police departments. You got it, Zamb – Don’t rely on the government to protect you from being held up. Police departments are just government interference with my right to protect myself. We don’t need police, if every citizen was armed with a few uzis and some spare hand grenades, we could protect ourselves! No need for cops at all! You drive across MY lawn, and I blow you away!! Don’t want to work? Hah! The Canadians give you a check! In the good ol’ U.S., if you don’t work, you don’t get paid. Damn straight! And we don’t bother with distinctions, whether you don’t want to work because you’ve been fired, or because you can’t find a job, or because you’re sick, or because you have to take care of your family – no discrimination in America! You don’t work, you don’t get money, you worthless bum! Medical care, that’s one where the U.S. government hasn’t interfered too much yet. Break your leg? In Canada, the damn government will fix it. Hah! The U.S. system is far better – break your leg and you can PAY to have it fixed YOURSELF, if you have enough money or insurance. If you don’t have enough money, you’re SOL, but that’s YOUR fault for not having enough money, you no-good worthless jobless bum! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/4 "1999-08-11T19:02:00Z")
Dex, I love you! You MUST come up to the house for a duck dinner. Just stay the hell offa my lawn. * * * Uke ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/5 "1999-08-11T19:29:00Z")
You’re right Dex. This is not government for the people by the people. Hell, we all know that the people are a bunch of morons. If we let them keep any of their own money, well they would just spend it on houses, or child care or food. Selfish Bastards! The people are a bunch of heathen slobs who can’t even figure out how to pay for a pork barrel project. When they are allowed to have money, they spend on things that do no good whatsoever…well except that the people are the consumers that support commerce and industry. But they squander their money supporting businesses, banks, farms, manufacturers, etc. And industry has never done anyone any good…except the people that they pay wages to, well yeah and maybe they provide some of the public’s needs. But other than providing jobs and usefull products, they are all selfish robber barons just in it to make a lousy profit. Show me a company that doesn’t turn a profit and I’ll show you a good company. Andwhat are jobs, cars, clothing medicine and food? Just the type of crap that those selfish bastards “The People” squander their money on. No, Dex. People should indeed not be able to keep their own money. The government should decide how they spend it. Take every dime away and give em only what they need to survive. That’s what I say. Hell their jopb is to work and earn it. It os the government’s job to spend it. The politicians, they are the trustworthy ones. ---
**Author:** ![topolino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/91b2a8/32.png) [@topolino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/topolino)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/6 "1999-08-11T19:41:00Z")
Well, it certainly brings a tear to my eye when people who would gross over $60,000 per year can’t eat or buy adequate shelter because of all the damn taxes. Friggin’ poor people! They get what they deserve if you ask me. I was thinking about just this topic the other day when I was at church. Save the DuPonts! ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/7 "1999-08-11T19:47:00Z")
In Canada the government will fix your leg if you break it? Hell, Dex, we must be posting from different universes! In _this_ reality, the Canadian government doesn’t consist of physicians, nurses, paramedics, or even hospital trustees! No wonder you’re so impressed with the Canadian lifestyle. In _your_ universe, Canada must actually be worth something! ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/8 "1999-08-11T19:57:00Z")
Exaggeration for the sake of sarcasm, Akat… actually, I was quoting Zambinzi. But the error is only technical – the appropriate Canadian provincial health service will provide medical care, at no direct charge. Calling the provincial health service “government” was Zambizi’s post, I just followed up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/9 "1999-08-11T20:06:00Z")
Are you people out of your minds? YOu WANT the government to take more of your money away? How about this, why don’t you just go give your money to people who need it? And I mean every damn penny that is not going to food or shelter. Topolino, you go to church. Can you find that passage for me that says “the state shall force people to be charitable” ? If someone works their ass off, spends a fortune on education and makes good money, why should they have to give it up (beyond reasonable taxes for defense, infrastructure, etc.)?. Is the government the tool to redistribute that wealth? Who ever heard of such a preposterous idea as a merit based economy. Pish Posh! ---
**Author:** ![red\_wings](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/47e85d/32.png) [@red\_wings](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_wings)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/10 "1999-08-11T20:16:00Z")
Only in the US can you live in Palm Beach, Fla. (the island) and cross over the bridge to the mainland and be in the ghetto. From the most expensive street in the country to a neighborhood that you’re afraid to drive because you could get shot. At least in Canada you don’t have to pay to have armed guards at the entranceway to your subdivision to keep the poor out. What a country! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/11 "1999-08-11T20:20:00Z")
Mr. Zambezi, we have yet another difference of opinion. You’re willing to let the government spend your tax money on defense (what the Pentagon feels is appropriate), but not to feed the poor. I’d go the opposite way. * * * Uke ---
**Author:** ![red\_wings](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/47e85d/32.png) [@red\_wings](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_wings)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/12 "1999-08-11T20:28:00Z")
I agree with Uke. Let the gov’t spend billions of dollars on humanitarian acts like their involvement Kosova. What you’re actually saying is that that you would rather have the gov’t save the povershed in far away 3rd world countries instead of fixing the problems at home. What kind of backward redneck thinkin is that! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/13 "1999-08-11T20:32:00Z")
Well, damn it Ike, why didn’t you say that in the first place. I am all for decreasing the military budget and spending on sane, sound programs that keep the population healty and educated. Now, I am sure we would disagree on what those programs are. But I am definitely against the military actions taken by our government in the past 40 years. I am for solid programs that address basic needs–infrastructure, health, defense (not offense), police, fire, libraries, education MENTAL HEALTH, jails etc. Damn, And I was looking forward to making some wise cracks about you. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/14 "1999-08-11T20:37:00Z")
Feel free. Just don’t shoot me. ---
**Author:** ![topolino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/91b2a8/32.png) [@topolino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/topolino)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/15 "1999-08-11T21:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Topolino, you go to church. Can you find that passage for me that says “the state shall > force people to be charitable” ? Actually, I don’t. I said that to emphasize the hypocrisy of calling oneself a Christian yet declaring that programs to help the poor are disgusting. I can probably find a passage or two about helping others who need our help. Now, you may not be a Christian but, trust me, I know plenty of people who are that make greed into an art. Last time I checked, greed was one of the big sins. To be completely honest, I probably wouldn’t even be considered Christian, but I still get really angry about the “I have a big house, three cars, a butler, and I hate it when the gov’t takes my money to help those wretched poor people. I’m such a good person. I’m a shoe-in for heaven” attitude. Basically, I was acting that role. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 1999, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/16 "1999-08-11T21:39:00Z")
My wife an I are christian. We do help the poor. I hate it when someone says " we don’t trust you to help the poor so we are going to tax you higher and do it ourselves." That is not charity. That is the Sheriff of knottingham playing Robin Hood. I do not trust the government to deliver charity. Essential services are one thing. Redistribution of wealth is veeeery different. DAmn you reasonable liberals. Hey Uke, tell me about that cockamamie “No Private Cars” idea. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/17 "1999-08-12T01:02:00Z")
I will merely point out how Canada was #1 - something like 10 places above the United States - in the last UN Human Development Report. Toodles. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/18 "1999-08-12T01:11:00Z")
The difference between Canada and the United States, as I see it, is that the United States drops everyone in the ocean and yells Swim! The problem is that some people land in wading pools and other people land in the ocean. In Canada it’s the same, except we have a coast guard. > [@](#): > > All larger organisms, including ourselves, are living testimonies to the fact that destructive practices do not work in the long run. In the end, the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity. > > - Fritjof Capra, _The Web Of Life_ > [@](#): > > The idea of absolute freedom is fiction. It’s based on the idea of an independent self. But in fact there’s no such thing. There’s no self without other people. There’s no self without sunlight. There’s no self without dew. And water. And bees to pollinate the food that we eat… So the idea of behaving in a way that doesn’t acknowledge those reciprocal relationships is not really freedom, it’s indulgence. > > - Peter Coyote > [@](#): > > Freedom is not solitary, unconnected, individual, selfish Liberty. As if every Man was to regulate the whole of the Conduct by his own will. The Liberty I mean is social freedom. It is that state of things in which Liberty is secured by the equality of Restraint… This kind of Liberty is indeed but another name for Justice… but whenever a separation is made between Liberty and Justice, neither is, in my opinion, safe. > > - Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/19 "1999-08-12T01:12:00Z")
Dex wrote: > [@](#): > > And we don’t bother with distinctions, whether you don’t want to work because you’ve been fired, or because you can’t find a job, or because you’re sick, or because you have to take care of your family – no discrimination in America! You don’t work, you don’t get money, you worthless bum! _COUGH_ unemployment compensation _COUGH_ * * * I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985/20 "1999-08-12T01:39:00Z")
matt\_mcl whimpers: > [@](#): > > The difference between Canada and the United States, as I see it, is that the United States drops everyone in the ocean and yells Swim! The problem is that some people land in wading pools and other people land in the ocean. In Canada it’s the same, except we have a coast guard. And, of course, that coast guard straps sixty pounds of lead weights to anyone who shows an ability to do the dog paddle. Here in the States, of course, we only strap _thirty_ pounds of lead weights to such a person. I’d credit political bosses here with stealing the idea from Canadians, but that would imply that Cabadians can _have_ an idea; both notions are probably derived from European “good lordship”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-is-hitting-what-you-aim-at/1985.md?page=2)