# Gun Control; Toddlers Shooting People **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962 "2017-11-18T06:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/21 "2017-11-18T17:32:14Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > This is a cute story, but an apartment full of gun nuts > Leads to additional issues even if there are no guns. What, we have to tolerate a bunch of Confederate Battle Flags in return for no crime? … tenants packing their Glocks on their hips even keeps the police in line … > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I’ve heard plenty of gun nuts make the argument that if you keep a trigger lock on the gun, or keep it in a safe, then it’s not “at the ready” to be used as intended. > > Funny how every cop I know with kids keeps his gun in a locked box at night. Of course these guns are “at the ready” … spin the combination, load the gun up and one should have plenty of time to shoot that deer … it only takes an extra 60 seconds which is nothing if one is planning on spending the whole afternoon at the shooting range … Are you talking about defending your home from noisy burglars? … odds are they’re after your guns in the first place … and the police are going to ask why you didn’t call 911 before you killed the burglars … I know this argument is made by some of the pro-gun folks, **but I don’t** … owning a gun is a right a vast majority of gun owners are completely responsible with … if we say there are 350,000 gun deaths and injuries per year, then there’s 299,650,000 guns that _aren’t_ used to kill or injury every year … Do we outlaw cell phones because one in a thousand use them while driving? ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/22 "2017-11-18T17:37:57Z")
Imagine being a toddler. If you’re not living under tyranny I don’t know who the fuck is. You wanna shoot Mommy through the back of the minivan seat, have at it. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/23 "2017-11-18T17:45:36Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I’ve heard plenty of gun nuts make the argument that if you keep a trigger lock on the gun, or keep it in a safe, then it’s not “at the ready” to be used as intended. > > Funny how every cop I know with kids keeps his gun in a locked box at night. I no longer have kids in the house and keep my guns locked locked up. And I can access the ones designated for home defense in about 10 seconds. I’m not concerned about kids getting them. I’m more concerned about a burglar shooting me with my own gun. There are laws in every state regarding leaving firearms unsecured around minors. Tards who violate them should get hammered. Shootings too good for them. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/24 "2017-11-18T18:08:56Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Imagine being a toddler. If you’re not living under tyranny I don’t know who the fuck is. You wanna shoot Mommy through the back of the minivan seat, have at it. Kid kills themself or a parent, not that big a deal. They knew the risk when they decided to mix guns and children, and refuse to take any precautions to prevent the mixture from becoming dangerous. It’s when the toddler shoots the neighbor’s kid, or the neighbor (bullets from a 3 year old can kill an adult), then it’s no longer just a family matter. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/25 "2017-11-18T18:30:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Kid kills themself or a parent, not that big a deal. They knew the risk when they decided to mix guns and children, and refuse to take any precautions to prevent the mixture from becoming dangerous. > > It’s when the toddler shoots the neighbor’s kid, or the neighbor (bullets from a 3 year old can kill an adult), then it’s no longer just a family matter. You’re talking about children like thwy only count as objects their parents own, and so their deaths don’t matter. If someone beats their kid to death you can see how an innocent was harmed–why isn’t it the same if a kid dies because their parents left a loaded fun out? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/26 "2017-11-18T18:47:22Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > Toddlers in the United States Shoot people at a rate of about one person per week. > > [Cite](https://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/) > > [Cite](http://fortune.com/2016/05/02/toddler-guns/) > > [Cite](http://time.com/4311066/toddlers-guns-shoot-parents/) > This is a solvable problem. We’ve figured out how to keep them away from the bleach and the Percocet. > > We can do this. Over 50K kids under the age of 5 are treated every year in emergency rooms for taking prescription medication. something like 5% of children under the age of 6 are poisoned every year. Mostly 1 and 2 year olds. So no we haven’t learned how to childproof the world for kids yet. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/27 "2017-11-18T18:55:56Z")
Well, if you really want to get technical, there are still children who get the effing measles, because of jerkwad parents who won’t vaccinate them. It’s not so much about keeping the stupid people from having guns, as keeping the stupid people from having children. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/28 "2017-11-18T19:31:54Z")
I stand corrected. One post that doesn’t actually propose anything debatable but merely states that we can keep guns away from toddlers, a statement as controversial as “We CAN reduce childhood smoking,” can indeed generate a good debate. But we may be barking up the wrong tree. Since 2010, [six dog owners have been shot by their dogs](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/27/a-dog-shoots-a-person-almost-every-year-in-america/?utm_term=.1f81cdcd8345) in this country alone, and those are just the REPORTED cases. Dogs are arming themselves, people, and it’s not pretty. Man’s best friend, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/29 "2017-11-18T19:32:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Over 50K kids under the age of 5 are treated every year in emergency rooms for taking prescription medication. > > something like 5% of children under the age of 6 are poisoned every year. Mostly 1 and 2 year olds. > > So no we haven’t learned how to childproof the world for kids yet. Cite for the 50k? As to the one in six, I already showed that seems to be “exposures” that almoat all amounted to nothing. Actual deaths from poisonings are on par with deaths from toddler shootings . . .and there’s a lot more poison out there. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/30 "2017-11-18T19:34:56Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Here we have a perfectly logical and acceptable law that requires households with children to store the guns in gun safes or use trigger locks … oh, but that’s not good enough, how do we enforce this law? … that’s the problem with _any_ law, people who don’t respect the law are going to willfully violate that law … just look at all the alligators chained to fire hydrants in Michigan … > > Gun control laws are only going to work among folks who respect the laws … > '/oihbj5rxsa.,1q2hiugcfaw > > @ **PatrickLondon** - You should learn more about the basic gun-nut … they know that just one criminal conviction could make them _lose their right to own a gun_ … to them, this is a fate worse than death … if you’d just try to get to know a few, I think you’ll find they’re more respectful of the laws than the average person … > > It’s against the law to bring a gun onto public school property … that sure hasn’t worked out very well now has it? … > > @ **madsircool** - Child Welfare has fairly broad powers to enforce all kinds of child safety laws … although we can make them go get a warrant, just that when they return they will be taking our children away from us … remember, the 4th Amendment applies to property and the 13th Amendment applies to children … parents _do not_ own their children … > > ===== > > Haha … I included language in my rental advertising to the effect all units were gun-safe ready … not that I cared about the guns or children … I just wanted the general public to believe my apartment complex was full of guns and gun-nuts … we were unaffected by the surge of crime in our community, gang-bangers kept their distance !!! … But CPS cannot investigate gun owners as a class. They would need some probable cause. If they get a warrant but find that the guns are stored safely they can’t take the kids. Bit its still in everyone’s best interests to store guns safely. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/31 "2017-11-18T19:36:35Z")
Wow. You have to be a pretty big asshole for your dog to take up arms. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/32 "2017-11-18T19:49:25Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > You’re talking about children like thwy only count as objects their parents own, and so their deaths don’t matter. If someone beats their kid to death you can see how an innocent was harmed–why isn’t it the same if a kid dies because their parents left a loaded fun out? I don’t feel that way, but many of the gun owners do, so who am I to argue? (Bit tongue in cheek there, TBH) My point is only that they are not just endangering themselves and their children, but their neighbors and their neighbor’s children as well. They are taking a risk for their family when they decide to get a gun, the risk being that it is far more likely to injure or kill a family member than it is to be used to ward off bad guys. The other people put at risk are not consulted. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Well, if you really want to get technical, there are still children who get the effing measles, because of jerkwad parents who won’t vaccinate them. > > It’s not so much about keeping the stupid people from having guns, as keeping the stupid people from having children. Stupid isn’t the problem. I know some pretty smart anti-vaxxer’s. It’s a combination of arrogance and selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/33 "2017-11-18T19:51:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Stupid isn’t the problem. I know some pretty smart anti-vaxxer’s. It’s a combination of arrogance and selfishness. OK, well, kinda still the same problem with gun owners, so, point stands. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/34 "2017-11-18T19:52:55Z")
How about we stop treating toddlers and old folks shooting people as “accidents”? It’s not an accident when a toddler fires a gun. It’s negligence. People who negligently allow their guns to go off should, I don’t know, lose the right to own a fucking gun? If you’re so fucking negligent that a toddler gets your gun and shoots someone then no more firearms for you, my friend. You’re done. But you gun nuts will never admit toddlers shooting people is a problem. And why is that? Because if it’s a problem then we should find a way to mitigate the problem. That’s gun control, the first step to gun grabbing. We don’t want gun grabbing, so toddlers shooting people cannot be a problem, case closed, end of story, now is not the time to politicize toddlers shooting people. It’s only a few toddlers ending up dead, that’s the price of freedom, right? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/35 "2017-11-18T20:00:22Z")
The unspoken in this thread is race; if it’s mostly black kids killing black parents that’s their problem. Right? Just the same as the adult version. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/36 "2017-11-18T20:23:49Z")
From the first cite in the OP: > [@](#): > > Noting that “in most cases, the toddlers are killing or injuring themselves,” Ingraham counted 58 total toddler-involved shootings in 2015 as of 17 December of that year. In 19 instances toddlers shot and killed themselves, and in two others toddlers shot and killed other individuals. That brought the total of toddler-involved shooting deaths in the United States in 2015 to 21. That’s less than a 50% success rate. These toddlers need more time at the shooting range to hone their skills. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/37 "2017-11-18T20:24:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > My God! There’s a toddler in the room with my wife and baby right now!! Try to stay downwind! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/38 "2017-11-18T20:25:58Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > OK, well, kinda still the same problem with gun owners, so, point stands. Agreed, and to be fair, stupid is a large factor as well in many of these “accidents”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/39 "2017-11-18T20:29:17Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Cite for the 50k? > > As to the one in six, I already showed that seems to be “exposures” that almoat all amounted to nothing. > > Actual deaths from poisonings are on par with deaths from toddler shootings . . .and there’s a lot more poison out there. > **[Health & Parenting](https://www.webmd.com/parenting/default.htm)** > > Here you'll find parenting tips and informative information including expert parenting advice for each age and stage in your child's development. > **[Toddler Poisoned by Prescriptions](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/children-overdose-parents-medications/story?id=12423751)** > > children under age five make up most of the 100,000 Americans treated in the emergency room after accidently swallowing medications, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. And about 90 percent of child poisonings... Anywhoo, lots of kids are poisoned. Lots more than toddlers that are shot by or shoot a gun. Not saying its a problem but there are in fact plenty of ways to prevent kids from getting access to guns. They all leave open the possibility of human error or carelessness. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962/40 "2017-11-18T20:30:24Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Wow. You have to be a pretty big asshole for your dog to take up arms. Defense against tyranny! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-toddlers-shooting-people/801962.md?page=3)