# Gun control, Tyranny and Genocide... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800 "2013-01-02T03:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/41 "2013-01-02T13:17:45Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Fighting’s not an option? IMO some deaths are better than others. Not dying at all is better than any. It was the Jews who ran who were far more likely to live. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/42 "2013-01-02T13:20:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Why? So you could serve as propaganda fodder for how dangerous Jews are? In a situation like that, the only viable options are to run or hide, preferably the former. Anything else ends with your death. There were Jews who fought back, and I don’t think you or I are in position to judge their decisions as improper or “not viable”. I’m sure you agree with this if you think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/43 "2013-01-02T13:21:18Z")
[QUOTE=Your inverse, ten years ago] That’s nonsense. Islam control is about the rather obvious idea that if Muslims are dangerous, they should be gotten rid of. The pro-Muslim side is much more inclined towards totalitarianism, many of them acting like proto-death squads with their speeches about Sharia solutions. If there’s a dictatorship in this country it won’t be about the Evil Christians imposing Muslim control, it’ll be some American version of the Mutawa kicking in the doors of suspected Christians, Jews, Americans and dog-owners and gunning down them and their families for Allah, Muhammad and JIHAD!! [/QUOTE] That was surprisingly easy. Two peas in a pod, you and your precisely-rotated Republican twin, each just salivating at the thought of the government cracking in the skulls of a huge portion of Americans. The worst thing is you are both so HONEST–you aren’t lying when you say you think that this group of millions of your fellow citizens is a cancer that needs to be eliminated, and all will be a utopia once we purify our society of Those People Who Are Not Like You. That’s what scary. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/44 "2013-01-02T13:23:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not dying at all is better than any. It was the Jews who ran who were far more likely to live. According to the holocaust museums I just saw, running wasn’t always an option. And isn’t there a single heroic bone in your body? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/45 "2013-01-02T13:24:30Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Today it’s “one person with a gun killed some people so all gun owners are threats to the harmony of our society and must suffer.” Ten years ago it was the same, but for Muslims. Maybe next time it will be gays or redheads or people who drive foreign cars. In every case it’s about people who enjoy persecuting looking for a target and it’s a bad sign. No. It’s “today 30 people with guns killed people, and tomorrow 30 more will and and the day after that and the day after that…” Crying persecution is inconsistent with a manly image. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/46 "2013-01-02T13:25:44Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Would that have worked for the Jews and Armenians? No, because the majority of the population \*wanted \*tyranny. No amount of guns will help you if that’s the case. Besides, if German civilians were allowed guns, they would have used them to kill more Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/47 "2013-01-02T13:25:59Z")
I browse RW forums from time to time and one thing I see repeated is the artificial sense of grandeur that RW gun enthusiasts heap upon themselves. They unfocus their eyes, look up and imagine grimly sliding bullets into a magazine, as they prepare to face tyranny. When in reality, they are middle-aged and in terrible shape, and horribly trained. They’d be huffing and puffing as they run through the woods and would end up getting shot by a proper soldier. An American with soft hands isn’t gonna fight off the US Military, the whole concept is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/48 "2013-01-02T13:27:09Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > According to the holocaust museums I just saw, running wasn’t always an option. And isn’t there a single heroic bone in your body? People who hoard guns in their basement and praise David Koresh are not heroes. You’re kind of the opposite of heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/49 "2013-01-02T13:27:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. It’s “today 30 people with guns killed people, and tomorrow 30 more will and and the day after that and the day after that…” > > Crying persecution is inconsistent with a manly image. _I_ didn’t kill anyone with my gun, and Joe Sitta-Pack at the mosque down the street didn’t fly any planes into any buildings, yet we are the ones who the generalizers want to punish. Your continued insistence that the 99.9999% of gun owners who have never committed violence, like the 99.9999% of Muslims not involved in terrorism, need to suffer as a collective punishment is the totalitarian impulse. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/50 "2013-01-02T13:28:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There were Jews who fought back, and I don’t think you or I are in position to judge their decisions as improper or “not viable”. Considering that it was the ones who ran who tended to live, and it wasn’t the Jews who beat the Nazis but the Allied armies yes, I can safely say that fighting back wasn’t viable. If they couldn’t run and couldn’t hide that didn’t mean that fighting was a viable choice; it just meant that they didn’t have any. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > That was surprisingly easy. No, it was just silly on your part. Guns = Islamic people? :rolleyes: You do realize that you are comparing say, the UK’s gun control laws to genocide? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/51 "2013-01-02T13:30:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > People who hoard guns in their basement and praise David Koresh are not heroes. You’re kind of the opposite of heroes. I didn’t praise David Koresh. Where did you get that idea? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/52 "2013-01-02T13:31:02Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > _I_ didn’t kill anyone with my gun, and Joe Sitta-Pack at the mosque down the street didn’t fly any planes into any buildings, yet we are the ones who the generalizers want to punish. Your continued insistence that the 99.9999% of gun owners who have never committed violence, like the 99.9999% of Muslims not involved in terrorism, need to suffer as a collective punishment is the totalitarian impulse. You do notice that we changed airline rules to deal with terrorism, right? Wouldn’t that be the equivalent of gun control laws? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/53 "2013-01-02T13:32:11Z")
I know it’s hard for a gun-confiscator, but try to follow the actual argument instead of hopscotching around to the next thing when your point is countered. Guns do not equal Muslims, but the impulse to say “fuck the Constitution, fuck the Supreme Court, fuck what is actually true, fuck the principle of equal protection before the law” regarding one thing is a terrible, terrible impulse for all other things. If you shred every legal and cultural protection Americans have from genocide in order to get at guns, THAT is what makes genocide more likely, not the fact of who does or doesn’t physically possess the guns. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/54 "2013-01-02T13:34:34Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I know it’s hard for a gun-confiscator, but try to follow the actual argument instead of hopscotching around to the next thing when your point is countered. Guns do not equal Muslims, Then why did you bring that up? > [@](#): > > but the impulse to say “fuck the Constitution, fuck the Supreme Court, fuck what is actually true, fuck the principle of equal protection before the law” regarding one thing is a terrible, terrible impulse for all other things. If you shred every legal and cultural protection Americans have from genocide in order to get at guns, THAT is what makes genocide more likely, not the fact of who does or doesn’t physically possess the guns. Guns aren’t proof against tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/55 "2013-01-02T13:37:05Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > _I_ didn’t kill anyone with my gun, and Joe Sitta-Pack at the mosque down the street didn’t fly any planes into any buildings, yet we are the ones who the generalizers want to punish. Your continued insistence that the 99.9999% of gun owners who have never committed violence, like the 99.9999% of Muslims not involved in terrorism, need to suffer as a collective punishment is the totalitarian impulse. :rolleyes: Regulating gun ownership or outright forbidding guns is neither punishment nor totalitarian. And the easy availability of guns does endanger people. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I know it’s hard for a gun-confiscator, but try to follow the actual argument instead of hopscotching around to the next thing when your point is countered. Guns do not equal Muslims, but the impulse to say “fuck the Constitution, fuck the Supreme Court, fuck what is actually true, fuck the principle of equal protection before the law” regarding one thing is a terrible, terrible impulse for all other things. If you shred every legal and cultural protection Americans have from genocide in order to get at guns, THAT is what makes genocide more likely, not the fact of who does or doesn’t physically possess the guns. Except that’s just your fantasy version of gun control, not the reality. In fact, it’s you projecting the behavior and attitude of the pro-gun side onto their opponents; the pro-gun side has demonstrated a clear willingness to shred the Constitution and sacrifice “every legal and cultural protection” in the name of guns. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/56 "2013-01-02T13:37:17Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I am making an honest effort to ignore my fetishes and understand your POV, but I still don’t get what it is you think the government might do if you and your guns weren’t there to stop them. They already run the country, so there is no need for them to take and hold land inside its borders. Nor can I imagine a scenario where rounding up all the white people and putting them in camps makes any sense. > > They have already passed all the laws they need to do whatever they want to you, and a lot of the super-patriots who are so worried about Obama’s designs on the Second Amendment, cheered Bush on while he fucked the 4th through 8th amendments in the ass. If they want to ship you to a secret prison and hold you indefinitely without trial, all they have to do is say they suspect you of terrorism. And if you already have a bunch of assault weapons in your home, you just save them the trouble of planting them. > > So what more do you think they would/could do if you had no gun, and how would your having a gun prevent it? If a policeman knocks on your door and says he wants you to go to the station with him because a witness reported your license plate number leaving the scene of an accident, are you going to shoot him? Because if you don’t, and you go to the station to straighten things out, and he’s really an FBI agent who made up the story about the witness, that might be the last time your family ever sees you. > > Why would the government need to send infantry into the streets, when they can just do that? this. being armed just means you get a swat team taking you down, instead of a couple cops. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/57 "2013-01-02T13:37:57Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I didn’t praise David Koresh. Where did you get that idea? Perhaps the way you make it sound as if the Waco incident was a one-sided mistake on behalf of the government, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/58 "2013-01-02T13:38:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > They unfocus their eyes, look up and imagine grimly sliding bullets into a magazine, as they prepare to face tyranny. When in reality, they are middle-aged and in terrible shape, and horribly trained. They’d be huffing and puffing as they run through the woods and would end up getting shot by a proper soldier. > > An American with soft hands isn’t gonna fight off the US Military, the whole concept is nonsense. Actually, from the article, the big things about firearms is that they favor the weaker and the defensive positions. Did you read it? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/59 "2013-01-02T13:39:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps the way you make it sound as if the Waco incident was a one-sided mistake on behalf of the government, perhaps? How did I do that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/60 "2013-01-02T13:40:23Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > According to the holocaust museums I just saw, running wasn’t always an option. And isn’t there a single heroic bone in your body? You keep comparing our government to Hitler’s Germany. Do you really believe that we are even close to something like that happening? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800.md?page=4)