# Gun control, Tyranny and Genocide... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800 "2013-01-02T03:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/81 "2013-01-02T14:06:42Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The Iraqi insurgence seems to have held it’s own. Apples and oranges. Iraq is not America. The terrain, availability of resources, ease of transport, distance from a fortified military base for response time, culture, and lack of language difficulties all favor the military. We have every bit of intel we could possibly need about our own country, and if we don’t have it immediately available, it is able to be accessed. Americans, as a whole, are a population used to peace and uninterrupted goods and services. We are used to a fairly complete level of law and order. Insurgents who make trouble are just as likely to be turned in as supported, provided the government is not extremely heavy handed in interrupting day to day life. You also have the major problem of a politically divided citizenry on this issue. Slightly more than half of American now favor gun control measures, that is not an insignificant amount of people. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/82 "2013-01-02T14:07:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > 😕 > > Uh, yeah, I remember when we were expelled from Iraq. The cost of staying wasn’t worth it so we left. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/83 "2013-01-02T14:10:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There was mass confusion in 1776-a lot of “patriots” really weren’t, and a lot of people were attacked on mere rumors of being unpatriotic. It was one gigantic clusterfuck, and if it weren’t for outside help we would have lost that war. > > edited to add: My question remains-how would you have us tell the difference between armed patriot and armed thug? Not sure if I can answer your question to your satisfaction. For myself, I might think the armed thug to be shooting at me, or robbing me. Do you think we should have remained English? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/84 "2013-01-02T14:11:51Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Apples and oranges. Of course you anti-gunners will say that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/85 "2013-01-02T14:12:23Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The cost of staying wasn’t worth it so we left. Were you under the impression that we wanted to take and keep Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/86 "2013-01-02T14:12:31Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The cost of staying wasn’t worth it so we left. They had a government, so we agreed to leave. Are you of the opinion that the US government will leave if armed opposition to its rule gets strong enough? Where will it go? ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/87 "2013-01-02T14:14:23Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I don’t know. How did they do it in 1776? That’s easy - the patriots were the ones that won and wrote the histories… _Treason doth never prosper: what ’s the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason._(Sir John Harrington 1561-1612) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/88 "2013-01-02T14:15:01Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Not sure if I can answer your question to your satisfaction. For myself, I might think the armed thug to be shooting at me, or robbing me. The armed “patriot” might have been misinformed as to your loyalty and was only doing his patriotic duty. > [@Kable](#): > > Do you think we should have remained English? WTF? Where did you get _that_ silly notion? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/89 "2013-01-02T14:20:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The armed “patriot” might have been misinformed as to your loyalty and was only doing his patriotic duty. I don’t see your point. > [@](#): > > WTF? Where did you get _that_ silly notion? From your talk thus far that seems to be very anti-rebellion, anti-guns in the hands of the people, and when you called 1776 a cluster fuck. So do you think we should still be English? You didn’t answer. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/90 "2013-01-02T14:25:44Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The Iraqi insurgence seems to have held it’s own. With RPGs and IEDs, not guns. And against a cowardly enemy. Defeating a tyrannical local government would be far harder; and _still_ not rest upon guns. And again; in America if anything the gun owners are going to be for the tyranny. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Were you under the impression that we wanted to take and keep Iraq? Yes, we clearly intended to do so before they declined to go along with the program. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/91 "2013-01-02T14:29:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > With RPGs and IEDs, not guns. And against a cowardly enemy. Defeating a tyrannical local government would be far harder; and _still_ not rest upon guns. And again; in America if anything the gun owners are going to be for the tyranny. I’m sure that guns along with RPGs and IEDs helped rather than hindered their cause. Maybe you should be a gun owner then. > [@](#): > > Yes, we clearly intended to do so before they declined to go along with the program. That’s what I recall as well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/92 "2013-01-02T14:30:39Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I’m sure that guns along with RPGs and IEDs helped rather than hindered their cause. They didn’t matter. That’s why Saddam let the citizens have them in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/93 "2013-01-02T14:31:49Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Of course you anti-gunners will say that. If you feel that my accusation of false equivalence is out of line, by all means show me where I’m wrong. Horse, mouse, they’re both mammals right? Sheesh! same thing.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/94 "2013-01-02T14:41:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They didn’t matter. That’s why Saddam let the citizens have them in the first place. Along with RPGs? How many americans were shot in Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/95 "2013-01-02T14:45:34Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > If you feel that my accusation of false equivalence is out of line, by all means show me where I’m wrong. Horse, mouse, they’re both mammals right? Sheesh! same thing.:rolleyes: How much effort and I supposed to make for someone who obviously hasn’t read the linked article? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/96 "2013-01-02T14:54:25Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > How much effort and I supposed to make for someone who obviously hasn’t read the linked article? The same that I made for you in demonstrating logically, and specifically why such a resistance would fail in America as opposed to Iraq. This is called “Great Debates” for a reason. If you want to change minds, then you have to be able to make logical counters, not just try to shout down anyone who makes a point you disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/97 "2013-01-02T14:58:15Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The cost of staying wasn’t worth it so we left. Exactly. A foreign occupier can always say “fuck this” and leave. Not the case with domestic tyrants, for them it’s win or die. If you look at insurgencies of the recent past which have failed, Nigeria and Sri Lanka for instance, they were against domestic governments. Also, another thing, armies do not like to fire on their own people, and any tyrant worth his salt knows that. Sure they can be prevailed to do som but doing it without cause (in the soldiers eyes) gives you a very good chance of an outright mutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/98 "2013-01-02T15:02:55Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > The same that I made for you in demonstrating logically, and specifically why such a resistance would fail in America as opposed to Iraq. This is called “Great Debates” for a reason. If you want to change minds, then you have to be able to make logical counters, not just try to shout down anyone who makes a point you disagree with. OK, and this great debate is about a specific article I posted. I would be happy if you adressed it specifically. I’m sure I could counter you specific arguments with equal but opposite leaning conjecture but I’d rather not waste the time. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/99 "2013-01-02T15:06:26Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I don’t see your point. > From your talk thus far that seems to be very anti-rebellion, anti-guns in the hands of the people, and when you called 1776 a cluster fuck. So do you think we should still be English? You didn’t answer. I am very proud of the effort put forth by the professional armies, both domestic and foreign, that fought together to free this nation. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/100 "2013-01-02T15:08:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Also, another thing, armies do not like to fire on their own people, and any tyrant worth his salt knows that. Sure they can be prevailed to do som but doing it without cause (in the soldiers eyes) gives you a very good chance of an outright mutiny. So the trick is to make your people you want to kill not count as your people. Or gas them instead of shoot them I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800.md?page=6)