# Gun control, Tyranny and Genocide... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800 "2013-01-02T03:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/161 "2013-01-03T15:20:05Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I’m well aware that Ar-15 is an extremely popular target and hunting rifle, and why that is so. Then you shouldn’t have claimed otherwise. I’m not sure what the actual numbers are but I would not be surprised if it is, or is fast becoming the most popular sporting rifle in America. > [@](#): > > I’m also aware that they are repurposed into that use, not designed nor manufactured for it. Yes, just like bolt action rifles. You have a bolt action right? And lets not lose track of the original argument regarding genocide for which a military type rifle has a lot of advantages going for it. And I can’t help but notice that you think your guns should be legal, but mine shouldn’t. That’s seems a little self serving. > [@](#): > > As to your comments on make for revolvers: Frankly, I don’t care. I don’t shoot competitively and don’t really give two pieces of monkey crap about that sort of wankery. I shoot what I am comfortable with, and my accuracy was good enough for the military. I’ve shot S&W before, and they are nice firearms. They also are expensive, and I don’t see any reason to upgrade when I have a perfectly serviceable firearm that I am proficient with already. My gun is a tool with one purpose only, to kill things. It does that reliably and accurately, so I don’t need a nicer tool, just to say I can do it _even better!_ Dead is dead. OK, I just think you should be free to upgrade should you ever desire to do so. > [@](#): > > Now onto American exceptionalism. In one respect, America is demonstrably more advanced, capable, and efficient than any other nation: Military prowess. Generally speaking, we command the largest, most advanced, best supplied and best trained military force on earth. Historically many societies have had that quality. What percent of them do you think have lost that superiority? > [@](#): > > An operation on home soil is intrinsically different than one in a foreign nation, and any arguing about that is simply ludicrous. How can you be sure, how often has it happened? > [@](#): > > Lastly, I’m glad we can agree that nothing is ever certain. Yeah, lots of black swans out there. > [@](#): > > If you feel that strongly about it, then you should have no issue with taking a training course, testing, and obtaining a license to hold possess your weaponry. Likewise you should support such measures everywhere to help ensure that any other you might be encountering in such a dire scenario are also sober, responsible citizens. When the shit hits the fan, it will be much better than having to stave off the black helicopters AND the roving gangs of looters. Not sure about that. I’m a licensed CCW holder and took a class to get it. My state recently allowed concealed carry without a permit with no change in crime rate that I am aware of, and the 2011 Norway shooter jumped through all such hoops to obtain firearms before he embarked on his massacre. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/162 "2013-01-03T16:00:35Z")
I never said yours should be illegal. I said that they should be registered and restricted to those who choose to test for them. Want one? fine, go and get your license, test and register for it, then make your purchase though a gun dealer, not at wal-mart or a gun show. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/163 "2013-01-03T16:27:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I browse RW forums from time to time and one thing I see repeated is the artificial sense of grandeur that RW gun enthusiasts heap upon themselves. > > They unfocus their eyes, look up and imagine grimly sliding bullets into a magazine, as they prepare to face tyranny. When in reality, they are middle-aged and in terrible shape, and horribly trained. They’d be huffing and puffing as they run through the woods and would end up getting shot by a proper soldier. > > An American with soft hands isn’t gonna fight off the US Military, the whole concept is nonsense. You didn’t read the article did you? This was addressed early on. It is the weak who are empowered by the gun, not the strong. And that strength grows in numbers. We already have an armed populace in charge of keeping the peace. They’re charged with enforcing the laws. Laws regarding the sale of drugs. Laws regarding the protection of property. Laws regarding the safety of women from rape. Have we stopped any of this? No. There isn’t the tiniest chance we will stop these crimes from happening and the criminals involved represent the minority of society. When a crime is committed it’s rare that law enforcement stops the act. The norm is to arrive late with a clipboard to take note of what happened. That’s the reality. Police protection is an allusion. We stand or fall as a society based on the behavior of it’s citizens. A government exists at the convenience of it’s people. Take away that authority and it quickly falls apart. You can see the results in the Arab spring. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/164 "2013-01-03T16:28:16Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I never said yours should be illegal. I said that they should be registered and restricted to those who choose to test for them. Want one? fine, go and get your license, test and register for it, then make your purchase though a gun dealer, not at wal-mart or a gun show. Are high capacity magazines OK by you then? Also Walmart if they sell guns is a gun dealer and does background checks the same as anyone else. The same thing happens at guns shows when a dealer sells a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/165 "2013-01-03T16:47:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A government exists at the convenience of it’s people. Take away that authority and it quickly falls apart. You can see the results in the Arab spring. Our government IS the people. Of, by and for. And right now, we the people are trying to figure out how to reduce the number of us who get shot and killed every year. Not everyone is helping with that effort. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/166 "2013-01-03T17:10:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Our government IS the people. Of, by and for. > > And right now, we the people are trying to figure out how to reduce the number of us who get shot and killed every year. Not everyone is helping with that effort. Sure they are. The pro-gunners are letting the anti-gunners know that they are barking up the wrong tree when they seek to remove/modify amendments designed to ensure that our government remains of, by, and for the people. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/167 "2013-01-03T17:23:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m generally a supporter of gun rights, but it’s always been a ridiculous argument to claim that knives (or whatever) are just as deadly as guns… if they were, then why does our army need sophisticated weapons? Why do our police? Why does anyone need a gun for defense if a knife is so effective? > > It’s just laughable. Do you know what else is laughable… straw-men arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/168 "2013-01-03T17:39:15Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Sure they are. The pro-gunners are letting the anti-gunners know that they are barking up the wrong tree when they seek to remove/modify amendments designed to ensure that our government remains of, by, and for the people. So what would you do if the majority of Americans feel that semiautomatic firearms should not be owned by individuals, and their representatives enact a law to that effect, and the judciary finds that the law is consistent with the constitution? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/169 "2013-01-03T17:50:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So what would you do if the majority of Americans feel that semiautomatic firearms should not be owned by individuals, and their representatives enact a law to that effect, and the judciary finds that the law is consistent with the constitution? Not sure, I’d judge the situation and the as it happened. What would you do if they the same thing happened regarding your fist ammendment rights? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/170 "2013-01-03T17:55:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So what would you do if the majority of Americans feel that semiautomatic firearms should not be owned by individuals, and their representatives enact a law to that effect, and the judciary finds that the law is consistent with the constitution? Out of curiosity, are you aware how fast one can shoot and reload a Smith and Wesson revolver? https://www.youtube.com/embed/uisHfKj2JiI?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/171 "2013-01-03T18:05:57Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Out of curiosity, are you aware how fast one can shoot and reload a Smith and Wesson revolver? > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI) Out of curiosity, why did you ignore the question? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/172 "2013-01-03T18:12:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So what would you do if the majority of Americans feel that semiautomatic firearms should not be owned by individuals, and their representatives enact a law to that effect, and the judciary finds that the law is consistent with the constitution? What would the majority of Americans do? How about putting you in jail for running your mouth because Amendments are now a function of majority rule? If you really cared about protecting people you’d be in favor of empowering people with that protection and not restricting them. Because taking away guns does not address the problem of violence. There are no shortages of tools available to carry out that violence. Deadly force can take any form. If the teachers of Shady Hook were armed they would have had something to defend themselves with against a variety of tools used to commit murder. Your solution addresses nothing and would have stopped nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/173 "2013-01-03T18:15:56Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Not sure, I’d judge the situation and the as it happened. What would you do if they the same thing happened regarding your fist ammendment rights? So you’re suggesting, if I understand correctly, that you might use your weapon to circumvent American due process of law, the will of the American people, and the properly enacted and legally righteous laws of the American government? As for our First Amendment rights (note the number of letters in “amendment”) are you contending that there are no currently accepted and acceptable limits to free speech, assembly, press, or exercise of religion? Really? Or should we take up arms against our need to get a permit for a march, or to be arrested at a sit in, or to be liable for yelling fire in a theater? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/174 "2013-01-03T18:17:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Out of curiosity, why did you ignore the question? I answered his question. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/175 "2013-01-03T18:21:28Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Out of curiosity, are you aware how fast one can shoot and reload a Smith and Wesson revolver? > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI) Great. Thank you for establishing the complete lack of any need for semiautomatic weapons or large capacity magazines! I feel like we’re making progress. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/176 "2013-01-03T18:28:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So you’re suggesting, if I understand correctly, that you might use your weapon to circumvent American due process of law, the will of the American people, and the properly enacted and legally righteous laws of the American government? As I said, I’m not exactly sure what I would do. I would have to judge the situation. If I were to choose to break the future law it probably would not be wise to advertise it ahead of time. If you lived in re-civil war, might you break certain states laws to help smuggle slaves to freedom? > [@](#): > > As for our First Amendment rights (note the number of letters in “amendment”) are you contending that there are no currently accepted and acceptable limits to free speech, assembly, press, or exercise of religion? Really? No I’m not contending that at all. Something more severe, more North Korean if you will, like you couldn’t debate politics in your home or on the internet. Won’t you answer my question? I’m mildly dyslexic, if I don’t have my macbook I might make a spelling error. For that I apologize. Thanks for pointing out my disability. You win that point. I hope it makes you feel good. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/177 "2013-01-03T18:30:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Great. Thank you for establishing the complete lack of any need for semiautomatic weapons or large capacity magazines! Or reason to ban them!!! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/178 "2013-01-03T18:30:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Great. Thank you for establishing the complete lack of any need for semiautomatic weapons or large capacity magazines! > > I feel like we’re making progress. Since it’s been demonstrated that they are the same then there is no reason to eliminate one because it sets up the elimination of the other. You’ve just demonstrated the same slippery slope mentality that was used to create laws that prevent smokers from smoking in their own house. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/179 "2013-01-03T18:36:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > And isn’t there a single heroic bone in your body? I’d like to know what you mean by “heroic” here. Heroic bones tend to get broken. > [@Kable](#): > > If you lived in re-civil war, might you break certain states laws to help smuggle slaves to freedom? And the similarity between slavery and gun ownership is? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800/180 "2013-01-03T18:42:44Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I’d like to know what you mean by “heroic” here. Heroic bones tend to get broken. 1: of, relating to, resembling, or suggesting heroes especially of antiquity 2 a: exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b: supremely noble or self-sacrificing Sure they get broken sometimes, as do bones of those suffering from learned helplessness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-tyranny-and-genocide/645800.md?page=10)