# Gun control wouldn't have stopped what happened in Vegas...should we do it anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873 "2017-10-03T15:32:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/241 "2017-10-04T23:06:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where are you seeing that? I’m on the right, and damnit, it looks like I’m on the outside of yet another “consensus” looking in. I agree that was wishful thinking. Perhaps we should seek a consensus about making all weapons fully automatic from the factory, to save people the trouble of modding them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/242 "2017-10-04T23:17:56Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I agree that was wishful thinking. Perhaps we should seek a consensus about making all weapons fully automatic from the factory, to save people the trouble of modding them. I’d prefer we make them all select-fire, but, in the interest of compromise, I’ll accept your position on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Settimo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Settimo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Settimo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/243 "2017-10-04T23:34:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [This article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.c9ceb33fe6db) is perhaps relevant: I saw that article too. But I would be careful in this thread about only looking at “hard” approaches. There’s a strong psychological element to America’s gun problem, and I think any approach that doesn’t take that into consideration is going to fail. Such as focusing only on legislation. You could try for example to reduce kleptomania by tightening store security, but you probably have better chances dealing with the “soft” side of the problem–that is understanding the mind, motivations, impulses of the kleptomaniac, and acting on that knowledge. And I’m referring to the general attraction between guns and violence in America, especially in American mass shootings, as a reflection of a damaged American psyche, and not just the psychology of a specific shooter. You could argue that all self-annihilating jihadists, for example, are a priori suicidal, but that ignores the cultural influences on such actions. I.e. the American mass shooting is as much a cultural phenomenon as it is the act of any crazy-nutball-suicidal-deviant. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/244 "2017-10-04T23:43:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > How did you get _THAT_ out of my post? No, I do not agree that it “automates the act of killing” nor do I agree that it makes it more efficient. I was just observing that banning bump fire stocks is probably an exercise in futility. Well what does it do? IOW: Why does anyone want one? (I saw the videos.) Or: What did Paddock use it for? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/245 "2017-10-04T23:46:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Well what does it do? IOW: Why does anyone want one? (I saw the videos.) You never shot an automatic weapon. It is fun. I never shot a bump-fire weapon, it is probably fun as well. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/246 "2017-10-04T23:49:03Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/247 "2017-10-04T23:55:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > You never shot an automatic weapon. It is fun. I never shot a bump-fire weapon, it is probably fun as well. That is a reasonable answer. (God, you people scare me.) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/248 "2017-10-05T00:02:11Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > You never shot an automatic weapon. It is fun. I never shot a bump-fire weapon, it is probably fun as well. Do you think it would be more fun? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/249 "2017-10-05T00:04:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It does seem as though we’ve been through this a few times, but [watch this video](https://youtu.be/U7DTjSla-O8?t=124), I advanced it to where she is about to fire on “full auto”. Tell me that you can fire a semi-auto that quickly. > > You calculated about 1000 rounds in 9 minutes, that’s 1.85 rounds per second, without stopping. That seems a bit high. Not that you can’t squeeze off 2 shots a second, but not if you are switching between windows, reloading and stuff like that. I’d put it closer to 200-300 rounds if he pulled the same plan, but did not have auto-fire capability. Let’s break this down. First, I watched your video, [watch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE) this, then watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_r-c2KEgz0) Mythbusters video. The TLDWatch is, you are just wrong about the speed. I deliberately went with a lowball figure. A trained shooter with a semi-automatic rifle that is in good working condition can shoot 5 or even 15 shots PER SECOND. The Mythbusters, who aren’t trained at all, shooting a handgun were shooting over 2 rounds per second, including reloads (Jamie was a bit more than 2 rounds per second, Adam a bit less). As I’m sure you’ve already worked out for yourself, my 1000 rounds in 9 minutes is actually a bit less than 2 rounds a second. This assume the guy is as much a tyro as you seem to be, and certainly as much as Jamie and Adam. Really, I doubt he was…I’m fairly sure he at least had some range time with all those guns, though he was obviously not as smart as he thought he was since he was using something HE DIDN’T NEED, namely that stupid gimmick that made the gun practically an automatic. BTW, did you notice in your video that the woman was firing 3 round bursts and not just rip and pray? Just curious. Next up: > [@](#): > > Why do you keep going on about accuracy? He wasn’t aiming at a person. He wasn’t aiming at a small group. He was aiming at a crowd of 22,000 in an area more than half the size of a football field. All he had to do was hit anywhere in that target, and he was hitting someone. He also had semi-auto’s in his room set up for sniper type of fire. If he had those, then why did he start with the autos, if they were just as good, or even better. Because it’s important. Clearly you don’t get it, so I’ll walk you through it…ironic, since you’ve failed to do this for me (but then, neither have any of the other anti-gun attack dogs in this thread so there is that). Think about the numbers for a moment. I know it’s distasteful to think about something like this in terms of numbers, and I wouldn’t do this at all except you guys have been such assholes about this focus on one part of my OP. But here we are. So, in 9 minutes, with an ‘automatic’ weapons supposedly firing at close to full auto rates this guy managed to hit about 500 people, killing 50. That’s pretty horrific. Don’t get me wrong, it is. But it’s also WAY less than he should have been able too kill, and far less than he would have if he wouldn’t have rip and prayed. I know…it LOOKS so good in the movies. But it fucking sucks, as you’d know if you ever shot a gun at full auto at a target more than 50 yards away. There is a reason that the US uses rifles that have selective fire and don’t just issue the troops guns that only fire on auto. That reason is your accuracy when you fire something like that is horrible. Based on 9 minutes and 500 hit that means he really was shooting at around less than a round per second…effectively. Meaning that, assuming he put more than the 1000 rounds I said even someone like you or me could shoot through a semi-auto, almost none of them hit. And this is a very conservative estimate, since such a rifle bullet is going to go through more than one person per shot. Almost certainly a percentage of the bullets he shot went through 1 or even 2 others, injuring several with that one bullet. Consider what that means, then come back and talk to me about how great bump triggers are and full auto. Now, consider this…using a semi-automatic rifle with a scope and even a bit of competency he should have been able to fire around 1000 rounds of AIMED FIRE…meaning he could probably expect to hit directly at least 500 people (I mean, I kind of suck, and I can hit 50% of aimed rounds using a scope and a descent rifle rest, like, oh, say a window ledge)…meaning he would have probably had a lot more casualties than this guy managed. At a minimum he’d have done basically the same thing without any need of gimmick triggers, illegal mods or, well, anything that any citizen couldn’t get with any reasonable (meaning realistic) level of gun control. Simply put, no matter what gun control you can imagine (or I can at any rate, wanting to keep things in the real world), nothing would have stopped this guy. No? Then…FUCKING…walk me through it. I’ve asked and ask. Show me the money. Don’t show me videos that you clearly don’t even understand. Don’t talk to me about things you don’t seem to get and have no experience with. Walk me through some legislature that would have prevented this AND is grounded in some sort of reality. Perhaps you can…I certainly can’t think of any. And that is what the thread is supposed to be about. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/250 "2017-10-05T00:05:37Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Do you think it would be more fun? Not really. From the videos, it is awkward. But still fun, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/251 "2017-10-05T00:11:05Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The louder a gun is the easier it is for a large group of people to know they’re in a “situation.” This is exactly what happened in Vegas if you have been watching. The gunman was completely invisible to the victims. And it was a festival concert situation. (REMEMBER ALL THE LOUD MUSIC AND CROWD NOISES?) Ok. Let’s talk about this. The shots came from 300 yards away. People thought they were firecrackers. If you listen on the video it’s not very loud. Part of this is because of distance. The other part was because from the perspective of the people being shot at the gun \*\*was already silenced[\b]. The gunman was firing from inside an enclosed area through a broken window. Most of the sound was deflected around inside the room. The part that was heading straight out the window was not muffled. This is exactly how a silencer or a muffler on a car works. You can duplicate this event exactly. Stand outside and have have a man fire down range where you are (obviously you are safely off to a side.) you will hear the full effect of the shot. Now have the persona go well inside a room and fire through a window. The effect is much lesser. For an assault type weapon that is really all that a suppressor can do (there are a couple of other methods that can quiet it way way down but they are only good for a few shots.) If somebody is shooting at you with a suppressed automatic weapon from a couple of hundred yards away it will sound like it does on the video. Firecrackers. So that’s a suppressordoes on such a weapon. It saves your hearing. It doesn’t interfere with the ability of anyone within distance of concern to hear and recognize gunfire. > [@](#): > > Now given that gun enthusiasts thoughts often run towards self defense with a firearm, especially in times of crisis, it is really shocking to me that they don’t seem to be able to put themselves in that situation in Vegas, in their minds. It seems like that’s all they do for the rest of their day. Is it because their handguns would have been useless and possibly dangerous for them to have in their hands? Does this event make their whole world fall down? Isn’t it a little bit of a snowflake attitude that you can’t do anything? If there was somebody there who was armed, they did the right thing by not firing back. You think somebody should have shot back? At a glass fronted hotel full of people? From 300 yards? "As the Onion headline laid waste to America’s gun politics: > [@](#): > > Everyone who is a victim has that moment when it’s life or death. You’re just telling us that you haven’t had it. It doesn’t make a difference… to you. At this time. Congratulations. I’ve been shot at 3 times, twice from a distance. I know exactly what it’s like. This “moment when it’s life and death” is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/252 "2017-10-05T00:11:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m seeing a consensus emerge on the right about the need to ban bump stocks. Wait until NRA hears about it. The NRA is becoming a lot more than just a lobbying group; they’re becoming American brown shirts. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/253 "2017-10-05T00:14:24Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Sorry you’re tired of trying to make absurd points that make no sense. Your OP started off by poisoning the well and you went on from there. > > Why do you think he used a bump stock? Was it a style choice? > > If it didn’t help him kill more people he might have passed on the option to do that. Common sense says you are making excuses here but I have no idea why. > > I saw someone on Fox news last night say the same thing you are saying about silencers. (Sorry but it was Brian Kilmeade. This is not to cause offense to you. Just the truth) Saying that no silencer was used therefore there is nothing to see or think about here!? > > You have already been explained to about why they are the shooters good friend and the victims mortal enemy. You have been explained to why there would have been many more deaths if he had had a silencer, the kind that Dump junior has promoted very recently… You can hear and see something of what it was like in the footage. Every second counted for them. I’m sorry you can’t understand that. But really dude, how do you think you are supporting this ridiculous OP? > > By saying without any support at all, that you think he could squeeze off enough shots manually to compete with an automated gun? (Guess you never heard the the song John Henry?) > > By saying he didn’t use a silencer? (again) > > That’s it? > > So let me get this straight. You think you have made an inarguable point and you are confused as to why anyone would argue past your first thought? You shouldn’t be so confused. I think I made a point you don’t get, and frankly I’m not here to educate the ignorant on this. If you want to think you know what you are talking about, well…I’m sure there are other 'dopers in here who know about as much as you do on this subject who are wisely nodding their heads in unison with you right now. Hope it makes you feel good. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/254 "2017-10-05T00:33:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Society has accepted the risk of car deaths because cars have a significant utility besides killing motorists and pedestrians. Guns have utility too. Mores so than say alcohol or cigarettes which I think kill more people than guns. > [@](#): > > The standard “pro gun” line WRT silencers is that they “aren’t actually silent”. While this is true. everything I’ve read about them indicates that they do provide the following benefits: > > - Reduce the sound signature or disguise it enough to make it less identifiable as a gunshot That’s not accurate. There’s two types of suppressor. One kind does what you say to a reasonable extent, but it doesn’t last very long, maybe a couple of shots and it seriously degrades range and accuracy. It is also potentially dangerous to the user. The other type quiets the gun down from the perspective of a person behind, or to the sides of the gun. It doesn’t do much to degrade the sound from the perspective of somebody downrange. Why? Because you can’t block the sound waves traveling along the path of the bullet and not block the bullet. Outlying suppressor is basically outlawing hearing protection. > [@](#): > > - Reduce muzzle flash (making the shooter more difficult to locate) This would be a flash suppressor, not a silencer. They are legal in many states. If you are deaf and being shot at by an unknown salient who is hiding in the cover of darkness, and he has a flash suppressor than you are screwed. Beyond that particular special circumstance I’m not sure I see the objection. > [@](#): > > - Make the gun more stable, so as to quickly allow quicker follow up shots Do you have a cite for that? they make aiming a handgun more difficult, and the weight at the end of the barrel contributes to barrel droop. On a bigger weapon the would be negligible. > [@](#): > > - Reduce the noise within an enclosed space (such as a hotel room) Yes. To the point that you are not going to deafen anyone not wearing hearing protection. To your point, the fundamental problem is that making a gun “less obnoxious to fire” and more ergonomic for the shooter tends to improve the tactical utility of the weapon as well. But the whole problem IMHO is that pro-gun people believe guns should be treated as this sacred objects. I can’t remember the last time I could bring shampoo or nail clippers on an airplane. You need to pass a test to drive a car and there are strict rules to follow with respect to where and how you drive it. Even more so for heavier and more complex machinery. And yet, in many states, nearly anyone can purchase nearly any firearm. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/255 "2017-10-05T00:57:31Z")
Since videos seem to be the way to go, and since people want to talk about silencers, I figured I’d link to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqUcB1xX-Dw). Basically, it’s what Scylla is saying here…notice when they tested it from the down range perspective it was still very loud…nearly as loud as the unsuppressed firing. According to the guy in the video, the second suppressor is ‘hearing safe’, but if you notice it’s still louder than the guys voice, and when you hear it from the side or down range it’s pretty obvious it was a gun shot. This is another thing that people ‘know’ from the movies. Full auto will mow down the bad guys and silencers are silent. Except, as people should know, the movies are there to entertain, not to educate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/256 "2017-10-05T01:15:37Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Now, consider this…using a semi-automatic rifle with a scope and even a bit of competency he should have been able to fire around 1000 rounds of AIMED FIRE…meaning he could probably expect to hit directly at least 500 people (I mean, I kind of suck, and I can hit 50% of aimed rounds using a scope and a descent rifle rest, like, oh, say a window ledge)…meaning he would have probably had a lot more casualties than this guy managed. At a minimum he’d have done basically the same thing without any need of gimmick triggers, illegal mods or, well, anything that any citizen couldn’t get with any reasonable (meaning realistic) level of gun control. Simply put, no matter what gun control you can imagine (or I can at any rate, wanting to keep things in the real world), nothing would have stopped this guy. > > No? Then…FUCKING…walk me through it. I’ve asked and ask. Show me the money. Don’t show me videos that you clearly don’t even understand. Don’t talk to me about things you don’t seem to get and have no experience with. Walk me through some legislature that would have prevented this AND is grounded in some sort of reality. Perhaps you can…I certainly can’t think of any. And that is what the thread is supposed to be about. Utter bullshit. The crowd was a stationary target for probably just a handful of seconds. After that, they were running for cover, and aimed shots would have been near impossible for any but the most highly skilled and experienced marksman. It was those first few moments that were most important – and all that matters is how many bullets he could pour into the crowd before they understood what was happening and started running for cover. It’s ridiculous to think that a higher rate of fire didn’t mean more people dead in those moments. If he hadn’t had those bump stocks, fewer people would have been killed. I’m not the most expert gun guy in the world, but I served in the Navy and I qualified on semi-auto and full auto guns (and I was good enough with the 9mm pistol to earn my expert marksman ribbon). If you don’t think rate of fire matters, then you really don’t know anything about guns. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/257 "2017-10-05T01:22:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Utter bullshit. The crowd was a stationary target for probably just a handful of seconds. After that, they were running for cover, and aimed shots would have been near impossible for any but the most highly skilled and experienced marksman. > > It was those first few moments that were most important – and all that matters is how many bullets he could pour into the crowd before they understood what was happening and started running for cover. It’s ridiculous to think that a higher rate of fire didn’t mean more people dead in those moments. > > If he hadn’t had those bump stocks, fewer people would have been killed. Sorry, but I say bullshit to you. It was a crowd of 22,000 people. He was able to fire on it for over 9 minutes. Aimed fire at such a vast target would have been MUCH more effective. Even in the opening shots he probably missed the majority of his shots. Had he fired in a more controlled manner he’d also not have spooked the crowd so quickly AND he could have shifted fire from one part of the crowd to the other. There is simply no way a crowd that size could disperse quickly, and there would have been plenty of people so terrified they just froze. Did you actually watch k9bfriender video? Did you notice that when that lady did fire on full auto at a car sized target that looked like less than 50 yards away she mainly missed? Those bullets were going all over the place. Contrast that with what she was doing when she was doing 3 shot bursts and hitting the target nearly every time. Again, I’m sorry that this doesn’t match up with your experience in watching movies, but I urge you and the others who keep bringing this up to actually go to a range with a semi-automatic rifle and a full auto rifle (you can rent them at some ranges) and freaking actually try it out for yourself. I have fired both, and while I make no claim to being an expert I’ve actually watched people who are. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/258 "2017-10-05T01:29:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Not really. From the videos, it is awkward. But still fun, probably. If shooting’s fun, more shooting’s more fun. I’m not modding anything if I don’t get a bang out of it. More of a bang more fun spend more on it. Either way, fun or bullets, there’s more of it if you automate the firing process. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/259 "2017-10-05T01:32:24Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Sorry, but I say bullshit to you. It was a crowd of 22,000 people. He was able to fire on it for over 9 minutes. Aimed fire at such a vast target would have been MUCH more effective. Even in the opening shots he probably missed the majority of his shots. Had he fired in a more controlled manner he’d also not have spooked the crowd so quickly AND he could have shifted fire from one part of the crowd to the other. There is simply no way a crowd that size could disperse quickly, and there would have been plenty of people so terrified they just froze. Did you actually watch k9bfriender video? Did you notice that when that lady did fire on full auto at a car sized target that looked like less than 50 yards away she mainly missed? Those bullets were going all over the place. Contrast that with what she was doing when she was doing 3 shot bursts and hitting the target nearly every time. > > Again, I’m sorry that this doesn’t match up with your experience in watching movies, but I urge you and the others who keep bringing this up to actually go to a range with a semi-automatic rifle and a full auto rifle (you can rent them at some ranges) and freaking actually try it out for yourself. I have fired both, and while I make no claim to being an expert I’ve actually watched people who are. I served in the military and qualified on full auto guns (as I said before, which you apparently ignored). I know how guns work. There’s something quite obvious that I’m baffled that you’re missing – _full auto guns exist for a reason_. You act like full auto has no purpose. Fully automatic fire changed warfare. Full auto guns can be incredibly deadly in certain circumstances, and a large crowd is one of those certain circumstances. Most of that crowd were running for cover within less than a minute. It’s just mind boggling that you think the most deadly single-shooter shooting in American history was _less deadly than it otherwise would have been_ had he used guns with _lower rates of fire_. Do you really think that rate of fire is meaningless if firing into a crowd? Let’s take this to ridiculous extremes. Let’s say he had modified his weapon to spew out 100,000 bullets in 10 seconds. Is it possible he would have killed more people, or would all of those bullets have missed? Let’s go to the other ridiculous extreme – let’s say it’s an old fashioned muzzle-loaded rifled musket. He can fire twice a minute. Would he have killed more people, or fewer? More rate of fire really might lead to more deaths, especially if the target is a tightly packed crowd. And especially if he had practiced with the bump-stock. It’s mind boggling that you think that rate of fire had nothing to do with how deadly it was. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873/260 "2017-10-05T01:32:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Wait until NRA hears about it. > > The NRA is becoming a lot more than just a lobbying group; they’re becoming American brown shirts. In what ways is the NRA “becoming American brown shirts”? Please be specific. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-control-wouldnt-have-stopped-what-happened-in-vegas-should-we-do-it-anyway/797873.md?page=14)