# Gun Grabbers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014 "2013-09-16T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/241 "2013-09-19T19:48:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you under the impression that there were only two armed guards there, then? It may be true for all I know. If you don’t know, how can you state that it was “full of armed personnel”? ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/242 "2013-09-19T20:57:03Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > +1 > > The refusal of people like the OP to accept reasonable restrictions at the national level on gun ownership is indeed ruining it for the rest of us, at least in some states like New York and California. New York has restrictive gun laws because of illegal imports from states like Virginia and the Carolinas where guns are far too available. I say that the opposite is true. The Constitution explicitly denies the government any authority whatsoever to impose even “reasonable”restrictions” on the people’s right to keep and bear arms. Not only the Second Amendment, but also the Tenth denies this power to the federal government in particular. There is, and can be, no such thing as a reasonable gun control law—especially at the federal level—without first specifically amending the Constitution to allow it. In any event, we did not lose as much of this right as we have, by failing to surrender it in bits and pieces at a time, every time the gungrabber movement demands that we give up a little bit more. It is a failure to stand up for this right, and to stand solidly against every attempt to infringe it, that has costs us as much as we’ve lost of this right. “Moderates” such as yourself are as much to blame for those as those who overtly seek to deprive us of this right. As long as we continue in this direction, we will only keep on giving in to more and more “reasonable”restrictions upon this right, until there is nothing left to give up. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/243 "2013-09-19T21:12:26Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > I say that the opposite is true. > > The Constitution explicitly denies the government any authority whatsoever to impose even “reasonable”restrictions” on the people’s right to keep and bear arms. Not only the Second Amendment, but also the Tenth denies this power to the federal government in particular. > > There is, and can be, no such thing as a reasonable gun control law—especially at the federal level—without first specifically amending the Constitution to allow it. > > In any event, we did not lose as much of this right as we have, by failing to surrender it in bits and pieces at a time, every time the gungrabber movement demands that we give up a little bit more. It is a failure to stand up for this right, and to stand solidly against every attempt to infringe it, that has costs us as much as we’ve lost of this right. > > “Moderates” such as yourself are as much to blame for those as those who overtly seek to deprive us of this right. > > As long as we continue in this direction, we will only keep on giving in to more and more “reasonable”restrictions upon this right, until there is nothing left to give up. Get with the times! Get a penis extender and surrender your other weapon! ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/244 "2013-09-19T21:17:06Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > The Constitution explicitly denies the government any authority whatsoever to impose even “reasonable”restrictions” on the people’s right to keep and bear arms. Not only the Second Amendment, but also the Tenth denies this power to the federal government in particular. > > There is, and can be, no such thing as a reasonable gun control law—especially at the federal level—without first specifically amending the Constitution to allow it. Opponents of gun control keep repeating this little bit of blather, and it keeps not being true. The Heller decision was even quoted earlier in this thread ([here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16672187&postcount=17)): > [@Antonin Scalia](#): > > Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. The first amendment isn’t absolute - fighting words aren’t protected, incitement to violence isn’t protected, confidentiality agreements can be enforced between citizens and the government or between citizens themselves. There’s an enormous body of case law defining just how far the protection from illegal search and seizure guaranteed by the fourth amendment extends; there’s case law on the protections from self-incrimination offered by the fifth amendment, on what exactly constitutes a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury" (Amendment VII), and what qualifies as “cruel and unusual punishment” (Amendment VIII). Just what is it about the second amendment that you think exempts it from the kind of examination and judicial interpretation that the rest of the Bill of Rights is subject to? ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/245 "2013-09-19T23:33:11Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Get with the times! Get a penis extender and surrender your other weapon! It’s kind of funny that it is those of you on the gungrabber side who like to accuse those of us who support gun rights as having issues regarding the size and perceived inadequacy of our genitals. And yet, you only ever hear mention of such issues from you gungrabbers, never from those of us on whom you are trying to pin this. This sure looks to me, every time it occurs, like a classic textbook case pf psychological projection. You’re the ones who keep obsessively bringing the whole issue up; which seems to make it rather obvious that it is you who have the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/246 "2013-09-19T23:45:35Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > It’s kind of funny that it is those of you on the gungrabber side who like to accuse those of us who support gun rights as having issues regarding the size and perceived inadequacy of our genitals. And yet, you only ever hear mention of such issues from you gungrabbers, never from those of us on whom you are trying to pin this. > > This sure looks to me, every time it occurs, like a classic textbook case pf psychological projection. You’re the ones who keep obsessively bringing the whole issue up; which seems to make it rather obvious that it is you who have the issue. 😕 Of course you would rather not bring up your small penises. Who would? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/247 "2013-09-20T00:06:21Z")
Great post, **Enginerd**. I’m sure the FF did not want crazies and criminals in the well-regulated militia. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/248 "2013-09-20T01:40:45Z")
Without diving into the middle of all the invective and strawmanning, I’ll just point out that the Navy Yard shooter, who apparently thought people were following him and putting microwaves into his head, may have been acting (as far as he could tell) in legitimate self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/249 "2013-09-20T02:17:19Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Great post, **Enginerd**. > > I’m sure the FF did not want crazies and criminals in the well-regulated militia. Thanks - I’m glad at least somebody read it. I notice **Bob Blaylock** skipped over the question on his way to argue about penis size. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/250 "2013-09-20T02:58:32Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > > > > [@RedFury](#): > > > > > > Get with the times! Get a penis extender and surrender your other weapon! > > > > It’s kind of funny that it is those of you on the gungrabber side who like to accuse those of us who support gun rights as having issues regarding the size and perceived inadequacy of our genitals. And yet, you only ever hear mention of such issues from you gungrabbers, never from those of us on whom you are trying to pin this. > > > > This sure looks to me, every time it occurs, like a classic textbook case pf psychological projection. You’re the ones who keep obsessively bringing the whole issue up; which seems to make it rather obvious that it is you who have the issue. > > 😕 > > Of course you would rather not bring up your small penises. Who would? Once again, my point is made. I’ve never said anything about my own intimate parts, nor about any possible or perceived inadequacies thereof. There certainly is not any way that you would ever know whether or not I had any such inadequacies. You could only know of your own inadequacies; and you could only be qualified to speak of your own inadequacies; which is what it truly appears that you are doing, when you try to project your own inadequacies on to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/251 "2013-09-20T03:04:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, before you buy a gun, you have to fill out a form and go through a background check. It is a federal offense punishable by ten years in jail to lie on those forms. There are a LOT of cases of people lying on those forms and noone ever follows up. A Milwaukee police chief once famously said he doesn’t chase paper, he chases criminals. The FBI and ATF don’t really prosecute a lot of these guys either. > > In my area something like 1% of the gun dealers account for over 50% of guns used in crimes. And its not like the guns from these dealers are all showing up in the gun dealer’s neighborhood, they are showing up all over the region. So why aren’t these laws being enforced? Lack of will? Of funding? > [@](#): > > First of all, I disagree with Bricker, I think you have to do more than prove a problem exists before you pass a law that abridges constitutional rights. I oppose voter ID laws that have no real effect on voter fraud just as I oppose AWBs that have no real effect on gun violence. I also think both end up hurting your own cause (see 2012 election with record turnout by minorities and the incredible jump in firearms sales and NRA membership after Feinstein got the microphone). Well, run that past Bricker and get your turn at the “plenary power of the legislature” lecture. > [@](#): > > We don’t always know which ideas will work but we tried an AWB for TEN YEARS with no noticable reduction in gun violence. If you can’t prove efficacy after a ten year test run, I think you need to come up with a good reason to try the same thing over again. I agree that the AWB was a waste of time. You should’ve just banned (or far more heavily and effectively restricted) semi-automatic handguns. > [@](#): > > BTW, how does the mechanism of a revolver limit the rate of fire? > I have a revolver with more capacity than my 1911. You have a revolver that can carry more than 7 rounds and can be reloaded more quickly than dropping a magazine and replacing it? What model is it? It sounds unusual. Smith and Wesson 617? Ruger Single-Ten? Some funky custom job? Or is your 1911 defective or substandard in some way? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/252 "2013-09-20T12:01:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So why aren’t these laws being enforced? Lack of will? Of funding? Or by the fact that background checks are required to be destroyed within 24 hours? Who is supposed to do this investigation of lies on background checks? Where are the records they can use to identify such lies? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/253 "2013-09-20T14:25:42Z")
Gee, you make it sound like the law is _designed_ to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/254 "2013-09-20T15:25:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You have a revolver that can carry more than 7 rounds and can be reloaded more quickly than dropping a magazine and replacing it? What model is it? It sounds unusual. Smith and Wesson 617? Ruger Single-Ten? Some funky custom job? I got one of these 8 shot .357s. [http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4\_750001\_750051\_765938\_-1\_775655\_757896\_757751\_ProductDisplayErrorView\_Y](http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765938_-1_775655_757896_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) I’m more of an auto shooter myself so I can reload my 1911 faster. Revolver specialist Jerry Miculek is faster with a revolver. You can see here: https://www.youtube.com/embed/lLk1v5bSFPw?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/255 "2013-09-20T15:41:45Z")
You \*need \*eight shots with a .357? You hunt Tyrannosaurus? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/256 "2013-09-20T15:48:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You \*need \*eight shots with a .357? You hunt Tyrannosaurus? Zombies! Obama already has the virus, ready to release it at any moment. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/257 "2013-09-20T16:08:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You \*need \*eight shots with a .357? You hunt Tyrannosaurus? Who said anything about need? More like want. It’s my competition revolver. I generally (rather always) shoot .38 short colts out of it, because the case is shorter so they wiggle less in the moon clips for faster reloads. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/258 "2013-09-20T16:12:04Z")
I don’t know what a “moon clip” is, and I would prefer to keep it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/259 "2013-09-20T16:13:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Zombies! Obama already has the virus, ready to release it at any moment. A 10 shot Smith 617 revolver would be a lot better for zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/260 "2013-09-20T16:16:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t know what a “moon clip” is… > **[TK Custom Store | Moon Clip Carrier](https://tkcustom.com/)** > > At TK Custom, we're experts when it comes to revolver moon clips and accessories. Visit us to take a look at our products, services, and resources. > [@](#): > > …and I would prefer to keep it that way. Why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=14)