# Gun Grabbers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014 "2013-09-16T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/21 "2013-09-17T00:35:29Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > [http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local\_news/article/Two-wounded-in-theater-shooting-4122668.php](http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Two-wounded-in-theater-shooting-4122668.php) > > Does this count, or does there have to be a body count. You have noticed that a lot of mass shootings start in gun free zones, and end when people with guns show up, correct? > [@](#): > > Jeanne Assam is another. Ms. Assam was a volunteer security guard at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, CO, December 9th, 2007, when Matthew Murray continued his killing spree. She exchanged gunfire with Murray as he entered the church, hitting him with several shots, and killing him. According to the pastor of the church, Ms. Assam saved several hundred lives. YMMV as to the veracity of that claim. So in one case, we are talking about an off-duty police officer, and in another about a volunteer security guard with law enforcement experience. I’m still looking for the case where a civilian, someone with no on or off-duty training or responsibility to protect, intervenes to prevent a mass shooting. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/22 "2013-09-17T00:41:15Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Anecdote /= Data. To be fair, I asked for anecdotes. I was curious to read about all of the incidents mentioned by the OP. If the OP was referring to incidents in which law enforcement personnel or people working security used their weapons to stop crimes, then there’s not much more to discuss. I fully support such people carrying guns, and expect them to be able to use them in the defense of themselves and others. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/23 "2013-09-17T00:44:17Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > The notion that way to stop shootings is to make sure that guns are freely available is the epitome of insanity and twisted logic. Hey, c’mon, we all know the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is . . . well . . . [a good woman with a heart](http://www.salon.com/2013/08/22/the_story_the_right_hates_antoinette_tuffs_courage/). ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/24 "2013-09-17T00:55:31Z")
Do you ever wonder if mass shootings in gun free zones happen because citizens are disarmed? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/25 "2013-09-17T01:02:50Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Do you ever wonder if mass shootings in gun free zones happen because citizens are disarmed? No. The majority of mass shootings happen in places that are not gun free zones (a Navy yard, for example). I think they happen because some deeply disturbed individuals decide to take out their anger and frustration on others. I don’t think that the gun laws of the particular jurisdiction even enter the shooter’s mind. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/26 "2013-09-17T01:04:10Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > No. The majority of mass shootings happen in places that are not gun free zones (a Navy yard, for example). I think they happen because some deeply disturbed individuals decide to take out their anger and frustration on others. I don’t think that the gun laws of the particular jurisdiction even enter the shooter’s mind. You think the Navy yard was a place where people should carry? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/27 "2013-09-17T01:11:12Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Do you ever wonder if mass shootings in gun free zones happen because citizens are disarmed? If this was a motivating factor for mass shooters, I’d think a significant number would be crossing the border into Canada, no? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/28 "2013-09-17T01:20:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If this was a motivating factor for mass shooters, I’d think a significant number would be crossing the border into Canada, no? No. Canada protects their borders. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/29 "2013-09-17T01:29:19Z")
That’s your response, seriously? Have you ever actually crossed the U.S./Canada border? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/30 "2013-09-17T01:34:34Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > No. Canada protects their borders. Wow you’re nuts. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/31 "2013-09-17T01:36:43Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Fuck you, gun grabber. It’s fuckwits like you that need to be disarmed post-haste. Your reflexive parroting of whatever the NRA tells you will be the death of the 2nd Amendment. You ARE the evil that must be defended against. That, and you have a tiny dick. Live long enough to regret it. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/32 "2013-09-17T01:43:09Z")
Hunh, made to 59 years today, and I’ve never had to point a gun at anyone. Just lucky, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/33 "2013-09-17T01:48:13Z")
Anyway, in a likely pointless effort to suss out exactly what the OP is claiming, I suggest the following: Premise 1: Mass shootings occur more often in areas with heavily-regulated gun ownership. Premise 2: Mass shootings happen everywhere consistently, but are _worse_ in areas with heavily-regulated gun ownership because there are no armed civilians to stop shooters. Premise 3: People who are contemplating a mass shooting (or some percentage of them) take local gun laws into account when planning their attacks and travel accordingly. Am I getting close? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/34 "2013-09-17T01:55:33Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Fuck you, gun grabber. Who exactly are you saying this to? Who are the gun grabbers? People here who advocate for gun control? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/35 "2013-09-17T01:56:56Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Before I go look for links, what does that have to do with gun grabbers wanting to disarm a woman the age of 70, and her right to carry a weapon to defend herself from an attacker wanting to rob, rape, or kill her? A 70-yo packing heat could easily be more of a public danger than the career criminals, who even hopped up on drugs are at least more likely to hit what they think they’re shooting at than to hit something/somebody else. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/36 "2013-09-17T02:00:27Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > No. The majority of mass shootings happen in places that are not gun free zones (a Navy yard, for example). That Navy yard was pretty much a “gun free zone”. Military bases mostly are. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/37 "2013-09-17T02:05:04Z")
The OP is an excellent example of the sublime beauty of Poe’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/38 "2013-09-17T02:09:14Z")
So the Navy is a gun grabber? They don’t want just anyone running around with guns on their facilities? I’ll defer to the Navy on this one. I understand they are rather experienced with weapons and people. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/39 "2013-09-17T02:09:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That Navy yard was pretty much a “gun free zone”. Military bases mostly are. BTW, I should have said “US military bases mostly are”. I know in Israel, for example, all soldiers are armed, on base and off. I wonder why the difference. US military authorities do not trust the military personnel to handle their weapons responsibly? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/40 "2013-09-17T02:10:37Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > As you have been told many times before, your, your friends’, and the NRA’s knee-jerk insistence that anybody be able to carry any gun anywhere in any manner they please is doing more to destroy the Second Amendment than all the Nancy Pelosis in the world by making people like me, who like guns but support reasonable regulation, turn against you because you are plainly insane and should not be allowed near guns. It’s depressing, but often true: the worst enemies of our rights aren’t the ostensible opponents of those rights, but the supporters who lack balance, proportion, and moderation. It’s true of free speech; it’s true of marijuana decriminalization; it’s true of immigration reform; it’s true of both sides of the abortion issue. Extremism leads to bad legislation, usually in an oppositely-directed reaction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=3)