# Gun Grabbers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014 "2013-09-16T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/401 "2013-09-27T03:09:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Just what I said, I think they are most likely dead, or in prison. If, by some blessing, they straightened up and flew right, how could I be displeased about that? But probably they robbed other people after you right? > [@](#): > > I should have been armed? Maybe. > [@](#): > > And the do my quick draw on him, clear my holster and put a couple of rounds in him before he can react? When I say I have the reflexes of a cat, I mean curling up in the sun and falling asleep. Right, you’re apparently as proud of your anti-fitness as you are of your cowardice. > [@](#): > > Besides which, I wouldn’t kill somebody to take their twenty dollars, why would I kill somebody to keep mine? A) because it’s yours and they are robbing you at gun point. B) because they are going to do it to someone else, and being the kind of people they are they might kill them others, if female they might rape them. Buy hey, you’re a peace loving pacifist resulting in or from less than average testosterone, so why let that bother you. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/402 "2013-09-27T03:11:18Z")
> [@hkepotat](#): > > It did not sound at all like that was what he was proposing. Maybe I’m putting words in his mouth, but when he says you are on the hook, means that you are answerable. If you have a good reason as to how your gun ended up in the deranged weirdo’s hands, you can certainly use that as a defense. If you properly secured your guns, but the neighbor’s kid is a prodigal safe cracker and gets in and shoots himself, you have done your due dillegence, and that’s a perfectly valid defense. > > If your guns are just laying around the house so that anyone can come by and take them for crimes or accidents, you very well should be held criminally liable for anything that happens with them, you have, through negligent actions of your own, allowed potential harm to come to others. Pretty much. It’s real simple. I have always been taught that a responsible gun owner secures their weapon, always assume its loaded, never fire it somewhere you can’t see/don’t know what’s on the other side, and other standards. So, man up. As long as it’s registered to you, you’re responsible. End of story. Until you sell it/give it/whatever to someone that is registered for it, then you’re responsible. You give it to your nephew, it wasn’t registered, your nephew didn’t secure it, a kid accidently got shot with it. It’s on your head. You’re responsible and don’t need Uncle Sugar sticking his nose in your house. No fucking problem, just make sure you secure it in a safe manner. And if shit happens, it’s your responsibility. Let’s be clear. Someone breaks into your house, steals things including your piece, and you \*report \*it. Then I would say your legal and civil liability is over. You sell your piece to someone that is legally able to buy it, then your liability ends with the transfer of registration even if that person goes on to shoot up an elementary school. BUT you don’t get a free pass that the second amendment means you can “collect” guns and “trade” guns and “give” them to relatives or “freely sell them privately” or any of that other bullshit. You’re a responsible gun owner, and that means you have responsibilities. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/403 "2013-09-27T03:11:28Z")
Fitness? Why didn’t you take out the bad guys with a karate chop? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/404 "2013-09-27T03:20:42Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Fitness? Why didn’t you take out the bad guys with a karate chop? Because I don’t know Karate. Martial arts are kind of bullshit: https://www.youtube.com/embed/ReF8hC3Fe4s?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Just like gun control: https://www.youtube.com/embed/aaDXUYTFL4M?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/405 "2013-09-27T03:39:48Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Heh. I never had any thought of editing or amending my post like you did. I was having some fun with someone who took my post about the OP(ME) seriously. > > As far as a car backfiring causing a massacre…let me know how many times that has happened. When you are done with that, let me know how many crimes have been prevented with guns, and the amount of times that shooters were stopped by people with guns that weren’t police/military. > > I am willing to bet that car backfires causing massacres are not as high in volume. I’m also willing to bet, infact I’ll even give 10-1 odds, that there are at least twice as many accidental deaths and “mistaken target” deaths as there are lives saved by defensive gun uses. (excluding law enforcement) ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/406 "2013-09-27T04:00:19Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I’m also willing to bet, infact I’ll even give 10-1 odds, that there are at least twice as many accidental deaths and “mistaken target” deaths as there are lives saved by defensive gun uses. (excluding law enforcement) Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/407 "2013-09-27T04:25:19Z")
Meaning no disrespect to Hentor or Elucid , but why are you arguing with an idiot? You have heard the parable about giving a pig a bath? ---
**Author:** ![hkepotat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hkepotat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hkepotat)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/408 "2013-09-27T04:36:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What if someone steals your poorly secured gun and kills someone with it? Are you guilty of murder? Can the family sue you for wrongful death? In torts the criminal acts of others generally cuts off causation even in the case of strict liability, some hoplophobes would extend crimnial liability to gun owners whose stolen guns were used in crimes. Murder, no. Negligence, hell yeah. The proposal is to make it criminal negligence. If you own a gun, it is your responsibility to secure it. Why is that so much to ask? If you leave guns laying around where criminals can steal them and children can play with them, how is it that not your liability. What happens with the gun after it has left your possession is no longer your fault, sure, but letting them have it in the first place is. What do you propose the penalty should be for negligently allowing your gun to be used in an inappropriate manner? Keep in mind, that, being not tied to acts after it left your possession, so you can’t be held liable for a mass shooting, also means that the penalty would not be reduced just because no one got hurt. Could the penalty at least be that if you cannot secure your guns, then you cannot be trusted to have them anymore? > [@](#): > > I support national licensing and registration but the notion that state level registration is invalid because people will skirt the law is bad analysis. ANY registration requirement is going to require the compliance of law abiding gun owners. Noone is going to go house to house to spot check whether you have registrered all your guns. The same is true of state level registration. The people who are going to skirt their state gun registration laws are not going to suddenly decide that they have to obey federal gun registration laws. > > The point (or hope) behind registration is that you will be able to register the vast majority of guns and be able to keep track of enough of the guns to reduce the flow of guns into criminal hands. If I cannot buy a gun in my state without background checks and registration that I do not wish to or cannot pass, I can easily google and find another state that has laws that will allow me to purchase the weapons I want. My understanding is that most gun laws only limit what you can purchase in your state, not what you can legally own. Even bringing in guns that are not legal in your state, transporting across state lines is fairly simple, it’s not like country borders where they actually stop you to ask questions. If this is extended to national level, I would either have to leave the country and sneak it in through customs, or buy it on the black market. Not that either of those is impossible, but definitely a greater barrier than a state border. > [@](#): > > Can’t we just make it a class in high school like driver’s ed or does my kid have to do a tour in Syria or Iran when he turns 18? Drivers ed, you mean 10 hours in class and 8 behind the wheel? Well, that’s better than what we have now for guns. Assuming that there is a test after the classes for certification like there is for a car license. Being professionally trained by the military not only in shooting, but also in strategy, tactics and teamwork would be far better. If we are looking to increase responsible gun ownership, mandatory military service would be a great way to go. Your kid would also be less likely to tour, as mandatory service tends to keep the public tolerance for unnecessary wars fairly low. > [@](#): > > They have very little political traction as it is. With that said I think a LOT of gun owners think it would be a good idea if everyone were better trained with guns. We’ve all seen idiots getting kicked out of the gun range because they can’t follow simple gun safety etiquette. They certainly are perceived by gun advocates as having the power to confiscate all the guns, if even the slightest compromise is made on their part towards regulating firearms. Question, the idiots kicked out of your gun range because they couldn’t follow the simple gun rules, they still got to keep their guns, right? Do you think they should have? ETA: I just saw China Guy’s post, and I am happy to see that he agrees that I did not put words into his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/409 "2013-09-27T04:37:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Meaning no disrespect to Hentor or Elucid , but why are you arguing with an idiot? > > You have heard the parable about giving a pig a bath? No, no, that’s about trying to teach a pig to **sing.** (It wastes your time and annoys the pig.) ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/410 "2013-09-27T05:09:21Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Meaning no disrespect to Hentor or Elucid , but why are you arguing with an idiot? > > You have heard the parable about giving a pig a bath? Yeah them geniuses are so smart they lost the battle. > **[Two Polls Show Gun Control Even Less Popular After Navy Yard Shooting](https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2013/09/22/huffington-post-gun-control-even-less-popular-after-navy-yard-shooting/)** > > On September 21, the Huffington Post revealed results from two polls taken after the Navy Yard shooting which show that support for more gun control continues to slide. Seems all these gun control pushes do now is sell another million AR15s. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/411 "2013-09-27T06:31:00Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Meaning no disrespect to Hentor or Elucid , but why are you arguing with an idiot? > > You have heard the parable about giving a pig a bath? > [@](#): > > “Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good you are at chess the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it’s victorious.” - Recent internet meme ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/412 "2013-09-27T07:29:32Z")
Also, I keep forgetting who he is. Its only when he displays his big hairy balls in public that I remember “Oh, yeah, this guy, poster child for testosterone poisoning…” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/413 "2013-09-27T11:47:21Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Meaning no disrespect to Hentor or Elucid , but why are you arguing with an idiot? > > You have heard the parable about giving a pig a bath? Well, yeah. That’s pretty much the very question that struck me last night. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/414 "2013-09-27T13:01:51Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Buy hey, you’re a peace loving pacifist resulting in or from less than average testosterone, so why let that bother you. Says the guy who needs to wear a strap-on to feel like a man. 😛 You know the difference between you and George Zimmerman? He had the balls to go fucking \*do \*it. You can only \*dream \*of being the man George Zimmerman is. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/415 "2013-09-27T14:59:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Says the guy who needs to wear a strap-on to feel like a man. 😛 You have a strap on? There is emerging research that indicates hormone levels affect political preferences. I bet you, elucidator and Hentor all tend to be more in favor of wealth distribution too. > [@](#): > > You know the difference between you and George Zimmerman? He had the balls to go fucking \*do \*it. You can only \*dream \*of being the man George Zimmerman is. I thought Zimmerman was guilty of manslaughter myself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/416 "2013-09-27T15:58:36Z")
> [@](#): > > …indicates hormone levels affect political preferences. I bet you, elucidator and Hentor all tend to be more in favor of wealth distribution too. Oh, **Hentie**? Heee-eeey! Listen, sugarpants, can I borrow some of that blue eye-shadow for Freddie Mercury Day? I’d ask **Elvish** , but he can be _such_ a little bitch, sometimes! OK, sweetie, bye! ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/417 "2013-09-27T16:13:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, **Hentie**? Heee-eeey! Listen, sugarpants, can I borrow some of that blue eye-shadow for Freddie Mercury Day? I’d ask **Elvish** , but he can be _such_ a little bitch, sometimes! OK, sweetie, bye! It’s science. > **[Your Hormones Tell You How to Vote](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/how-hormones-influence-our-political-opinions/)** > > The scientific search is on for the chemical cocktail that makes you vote Republican (or Democrat). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/418 "2013-09-27T16:20:13Z")
No, honeybumps, that’s _pop_ science. We have the barest beginnings of understanding what hormones do, and how they do it. _Mother Jones_ does some first rate investigative reporting, but they don’t know any more about endocrinology than you or I. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/419 "2013-09-27T16:31:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, honeybumps, that’s _pop_ science. We have the barest beginnings of understanding what hormones do, and how they do it. _Mother Jones_ does some first rate investigative reporting, but they don’t know any more about endocrinology than you or I. No it’s real science. I understand that you don’t like it. Sorry that science called you a pussy, but you knew that already. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/420 "2013-09-27T16:45:18Z")
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