# Gun Grabbers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014 "2013-09-16T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/441 "2013-12-22T16:14:10Z")
Just wanted to poke my head in here and say I’ve been involved in two occasions where I used deadly force using a firearm. The first time was during a traffic stop when I was a police officer and the second time was during an attempted carjacking after I left law enforcement (unrelated to the aforementioned traffic stop). Therefore, I am and will always be armed in accordance with the law. If it happened once (or twice), it can surely happen again. The fact that DragonAsh didn’t believe when someone says they’ve used a firearm in defense of their own life is quite shortsighted and asinine. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/442 "2013-12-22T17:29:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > By guns? Or do you think we’re talking about something else? I have no idea what you were talking about. You said, I and quote, ‘How many people do you think are killed by accident or mistake every year?’. To which the data says, ‘over 100,000 per year’. Did you mean specifically by guns? Then the answer is hundreds. Again, I ask…so what? How many people do you think are killed by accident or mistake by their alarm system each year? How many people do you think are non-fatally harmed by their alarm system each year? Which do you think is more effective in discouraging criminals from illegally entering your house: Proper locks on doors & windows and a working alarm system, or your gun? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/443 "2013-12-22T21:10:16Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > By ‘need’ I assumed you meant ‘use’, or things used for prevention (like, say, alarm systems, that I use daily) or things for safety (fire alarms). OK so you don’t really “need” your alarm system then do you? I mean you maybe poke the buttons on it, but it has never saved your life. > [@](#): > > I’m sure you think your gun ‘protects’ you. I’m sure it did, 100% of the times that I needed it. > [@](#): > > But I think the data’s pretty clear on what happens to ‘safety’ in the home when a gun is present. OK, so I’m not in a gang, I’m not an alcoholic, my girlfriend and I don’t have a history of domestic abuse, and I’ve taken gun safety courses. So exactly what data are you referring to that’s clear with regards to my safety? > [@](#): > > Outlawed? No. I don’t think guns should be outlawed either btw. No? So you’re as pro 2nd amendment as Diane Feinstein then? So exactly what steps do you propose to lesson gun violence? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/444 "2013-12-22T21:14:57Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > How many people do you think are killed by accident or mistake by their alarm system each year? How many people does an alarm system guard once they leave their home? > [@](#): > > How many people do you think are non-fatally harmed by their alarm system each year? How long does it take the cops to arrive after your alarm goes off? Don’t they have to call you and all your friends on the phone list before they even dial the cops? > [@](#): > > Which do you think is more effective in discouraging criminals from illegally entering your house: Proper locks on doors & windows and a working alarm system, or your gun? I’ll take my gun. I have deadbolts on my doors but a brick will smash any window. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/445 "2013-12-22T21:19:13Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > Just wanted to poke my head in here and say I’ve been involved in two occasions where I used deadly force using a firearm. The first time was during a traffic stop when I was a police officer and the second time was during an attempted carjacking after I left law enforcement (unrelated to the aforementioned traffic stop). > > Therefore, I am and will always be armed in accordance with the law. If it happened once (or twice), it can surely happen again. The fact that DragonAsh didn’t believe when someone says they’ve used a firearm in defense of their own life is quite shortsighted and asinine. Well DragonAsh loves his confirmation bias. Any data point that agrees with him is the gospel truth, any data point that goes against his preset opinion is obviously an exaggeration, a lie, or something to conveniently ignore. ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/446 "2013-12-22T22:01:28Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Which do you think is more effective in discouraging criminals from illegally entering your house: Proper locks on doors & windows and a working alarm system, or your gun? DragonAsh, I don’t want to seem like I’m jumping your shit, because I’m not. I value your opinion just as much as someone who shares my same beliefs. However, it would take an abacus to figure the number of perpetrators I’ve discovered inside a business our residence while the audible alarm was still sounding. That said, I know an alarm is not an effective deterrent. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/447 "2013-12-23T03:46:08Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I have no idea what you were talking about. You said, I and quote, ‘How many people do you think are killed by accident or mistake every year?’. To which the data says, ‘over 100,000 per year’. Did you mean specifically by guns? So in a conversation about guns,you didn’t have any idea what I was talking about? And you make enough money that you feel like you can confidently state that you make more in a month than a total stranger makes in a year? Who are you? Kim Kardashian? > [@](#): > > Then the answer is hundreds. Again, I ask…so what? The number is negligible, thats what. More people are hit by lightning every year than die from accidental gun shots. > [@](#): > > Which do you think is more effective in discouraging criminals from illegally entering your house: Proper locks on doors & windows and a working alarm system, or your gun? Are your windows made of plexiglass or something? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/448 "2013-12-23T05:31:01Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > The first time was during a traffic stop when I was a police officer and the second time was during an attempted carjacking after I left law enforcement (unrelated to the aforementioned traffic stop). That leaves one instance as a civilian where you used your gun. But aside from that, I have two questions: If you hadn’t had a gun, what do you think would have happened? (Hypothetical, I know, but I believe that in virtually all cases, surrendering your car doesn’t result in any physical harm.) How did the car jackers get a gun? (I suspect it was no trouble for them because guns are so easily available.) > [@](#): > > Therefore, I am and will always be armed in accordance with the law. Based on one solitary incident? > [@](#): > > If it happened once (or twice), it can surely happen again. If innocent bystanders have been killed by gun accidents and gun owners going berserk, it can surely happen again, too. There _is_ another side to the coin, you know > [@](#): > > The fact that DragonAsh didn’t believe when someone says they’ve used a firearm in defense of their own life is quite shortsighted and asinine. Do you believe everything you’re told by anonymous posters on the Internet? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/449 "2013-12-23T05:33:40Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Well DragonAsh loves his confirmation bias. Any data point that agrees with him is the gospel truth, any data point that goes against his preset opinion is obviously an exaggeration, a lie, or something to conveniently ignore. And then there’s you, whose bias is confirmed by satirical fiction.:D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/450 "2013-12-23T05:52:52Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Do you believe everything you’re told by anonymous posters on the Internet? I’m not anonymous. Just ask my wife, Morgan Fairchild. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/451 "2013-12-23T06:40:40Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > That said, I know an alarm is not an effective deterrent. It’s possible you’re on drugs or something, I suppose. Signs of a working, active alarm system is one of the single best deterrents to burglars for a home you can implement. I don’t know that anyone would even dispute this? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The number is negligible, thats what. More people are hit by lightning every year than die from accidental gun shots. And I’m sure more people post kitten videos to youtube every year than die from accidental gun shots. What the fuck point are you even trying to make? Only 40-50 people die a year from lightening, vs the hundreds per year from purely accidental gun shots. You call that ‘negligible’? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are your windows made of plexiglass or something? Huh? If the window area is compromised or if someone tries to get in through the window, the alarm goes off. Lights flashing, very very loud alarm, etc. It’s not rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/452 "2013-12-23T07:12:09Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > That leaves one instance as a civilian where you used your gun. But aside from that, I have two questions: > > If you hadn’t had a gun, what do you think would have happened? (Hypothetical, I know, but I believe that in virtually all cases, surrendering your car doesn’t result in any physical harm.) > > I didn’t have the time or the inclination to suppose what would have happened. Doesn’t matter. I neutralized the threat against me and that’s all that matters. I appreciate your belief that surrendering your car would not result in physical harm. Unfortunately, I know this to be untrue. Cites provided upon request. > > How did the car jackers get a gun? (I suspect it was no trouble for them because guns are so easily available.) > > I’m unable to answer the question of how my particular perpetrators acquired firearms. > > Based on one solitary incident? > > No, sir. Based on the hundreds of incidents I’ve been involved in during my law enforcement career. I KNOW what can happen. > > If innocent bystanders have been killed by gun accidents and gun owners going berserk, it can surely happen again, too. There _is_ another side to the coin, you know > > Yep. > > Do you believe everything you’re told by anonymous posters on the Internet? No ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/453 "2013-12-23T07:20:40Z")
You’ll have to forgive this abortion of a reply. Tapatalk is unforgiving. You smart fellas can finger it out. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/454 "2013-12-23T13:52:39Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Huh? If the window area is compromised or if someone tries to get in through the window, the alarm goes off. Lights flashing, very very loud alarm, etc. It’s not rocket science. How long till the cops arrive? 30 seconds or 30 minutes? And again, since you don’t want to outlaw guns, exactly what steps do you propose to lesson gun violence? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/455 "2013-12-23T14:11:06Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > And again, since you don’t want to outlaw guns, exactly what steps do you propose to lesson gun violence? Regulate & tax (federal, state, local) the shit out of 'em; make it enormously expensive to own/maintain; gi-normous penalties for being caught with an unlicensed firearm; you’re held partially responsible for any crime committed with a firearm licensed to you unless reported, tax breaks for alarm system installation etc. That’s just for starters off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/456 "2013-12-23T14:28:04Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Regulate & tax (federal, state, local) the shit out of 'em; make it enormously expensive to own/maintain… OK, so your a round about gun grabber. And about those alarm systems. How long till the cops come? ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/457 "2013-12-23T14:43:20Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > It’s possible you’re on drugs or something, I suppose. Signs of a working, active alarm system is one of the single best deterrents to burglars for a home you can implement. I don’t know that anyone would even dispute this? I enjoy a good debate just as much as the next person, but you take all the joy out of it being a condescending asshole. To answer your question, no I’m not on drugs. I just told you that signs of an active, working alarm system don’t mean shit. Honestly, the best deterrent I can think of is hanging up your silhouette target from the last trip to the range. Seeing holes punched in the 10 ring means more to a thug than your dumb fucking alarm. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/458 "2013-12-23T14:49:44Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > OK, so your a round about gun grabber. 😕 😕 😕 > [@Kable](#): > > And about those alarm systems. How long till the cops come? Couple of minutes, max. Neighbors poking around far sooner than that. Which is why burglars usually don’t even bother when the home is secured. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/459 "2013-12-23T14:52:10Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > **signs of an active, working alarm system don’t mean shit**. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/460 "2013-12-23T15:13:40Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Cite? 10 years as a police officer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=24)