# Gun Grabbers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014 "2013-09-16T23:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/41 "2013-09-17T02:11:24Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Do you ever wonder if mass shootings in gun free zones happen because citizens are disarmed? No. Mass shootings, in gun free zones or anywhere else, happen because _fucking insane people can get hold of guns_. Way too easily. And the Second Amendment absolutists’ vision of a country where everyone is packing and ready to whip out a gun at any sign of trouble, well, it’s a pathetic little fantasy. All it would lead to would be overwhelmed emergency rooms. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/42 "2013-09-17T02:13:34Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Do you ever wonder if mass shootings in gun free zones happen because citizens are disarmed? re: The Batman theater shootings Conjecture rather than data because Holmes has never spoken of the matter for the public record. There were 7 theaters within 20 minutes drive from where shooter lived showing The Dark Knight Rises. Six of them permitted patrons with carry permits to do so. Holmes carried out his spree in the one that didn’t. The one he chose was neither the closest to his residence, nor the largest where he might have anticipated maximizing the body count. You might argue that he chose the one he did because they once sold him stale popcorn and wouldn’t refund or replace it. I personally tend towards the Occam’s Razor line of reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/43 "2013-09-17T02:22:35Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And the Second Amendment absolutists’ vision of a country where everyone is packing and ready to whip out a gun at any sign of trouble, well, it’s a pathetic little fantasy. All it would lead to would be overwhelmed emergency rooms. I don’t remember arguing everyone should be packing, but since we are talking fantasy, gun grabbers dreams of disarming criminals is just that. Fantasy. The black market will thrive and criminals will stay armed regardless of new laws. Gun grabbers will only disarm innocent people who willingly turn them in. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/44 "2013-09-17T02:23:35Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > No. The majority of mass shootings happen in places that are not gun free zones (a Navy yard, for example). I think they happen because some deeply disturbed individuals decide to take out their anger and frustration on others. I don’t think that the gun laws of the particular jurisdiction even enter the shooter’s mind. So you didn’t know? Prez Clinton disarmed service members on base in 1993 (I bet the shooter knew that). So what we had here was… A gun free zone (Washington DC), inside a gun free zone (US Naval Yard), inside a gun free zone (federal building). Three layers of gun free protection wasn’t enough. Shooting spree lunatics seek out targets of least resistance. Most would not even plan a shooting if they thought there might be someone who could offer resistance. How do I know this? I know it by analyzing their chosen targets; almost exclusively plainly marked and strictly enforced “gun free” zones. So the answer to the problem is… More gun free zones! What was Einstein’s definition of insanity again? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/45 "2013-09-17T02:24:08Z")
Insane people get hold of cars. Insane people get hold of hammers. Insane people get hold of axes. Should people who are not insane be denied these tools? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/46 "2013-09-17T02:27:45Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Insane people get hold of cars. Insane people get hold of hammers. Insane people get hold of axes. > > Should people who are not insane be denied these tools? That’s bullshit, and you know it. And all your fellow gun assholes know it, too. Don’t waste our fucking time with bullshit that a reasonably intelligent twelve-year-old would be embarrassed to utter. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/47 "2013-09-17T02:27:57Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Insane people get hold of cars. Insane people get hold of hammers. Insane people get hold of axes. > > Should people who are not insane be denied these tools? We’ve now entered phase two of the gun nut post-shooting distraction song and dance book. Allowable alternatives would have included swimming pools and alcohol. These pieces of shit all sing from the same songbook. Go fuck a cactus, cactus fucker. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/48 "2013-09-17T02:31:18Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > So you didn’t know? Prez Clinton disarmed service members on base in 1993 (I bet the shooter knew that). So what we had here was… A gun free zone (Washington DC), inside a gun free zone (US Naval Yard), inside a gun free zone (federal building). > > Three layers of gun free protection wasn’t enough. > > Shooting spree lunatics seek out targets of least resistance. Most would not even plan a shooting if they thought there might be someone who could offer resistance. How do I know this? I know it by analyzing their chosen targets; almost exclusively plainly marked and strictly enforced “gun free” zones. So the answer to the problem is… More gun free zones! > > What was Einstein’s definition of insanity again? But if your argument holds, why don’t Americans bent on mass murder cross into Canada where gun ownership (handguns, anyway) is low? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/49 "2013-09-17T02:32:12Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > I admit I’m not aware of any instances where a person was intending to commit a mass shooting, and a civilian with a gun was able to stop the assault. Would you mind linking to a few? You’ve never heard of Jack Bauer? He saved Los Angelos. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/50 "2013-09-17T02:32:33Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Insane people get hold of cars. Insane people get hold of hammers. Insane people get hold of axes. > > Should people who are not insane be denied these tools? You know, now that you mention it, guns are kind of like tools aren’t they? What silly constitution would protect tools for heaven’s sake? Can we do away with the silly and embarrassing 2nd Amendment now? ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/51 "2013-09-17T02:38:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > But if your argument holds, why don’t Americans bent on mass murder cross into Canada where gun ownership (handguns, anyway) is low? Why on earth would they do that? There are plenty of targets of opportunity within walking distance. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/52 "2013-09-17T02:40:48Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You know, now that you mention it, guns are kind of like tools aren’t they? What silly constitution would protect tools for heaven’s sake? Can we do away with the silly and embarrassing 2nd Amendment now? I think that’s a great idea. You should have a constitutional convention and repeal the second. I’m sure you’ll get LOTS of support for that idea. You should start your campaign in Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/53 "2013-09-17T02:41:09Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Why on earth would they do that? There are plenty of targets of opportunity within walking distance. But if they’re walking in America (the REAL America, anyway, not the faggotty liberal “america” that isn’t worth a damn), they might have guns. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/54 "2013-09-17T02:48:56Z")
These fundamentally broken people will always follow the path of least resistance and there will always be places where guns are rarer than other places. Arguing for a moral responsibility to go out armed just results in a race to the bottom, the lowest common denominator from which a society can dysfunctionally operate. When everyone has guns, you’ll just start seeing a lot more pressure cookers. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/55 "2013-09-17T02:50:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > But if they’re walking in America (the REAL America, anyway, not the faggotty liberal “america” that isn’t worth a damn), they might have guns. Huh? That’s why they walk to the theater with the “gun free zone” sign on the door, or the school with the “gun free zone” sign on the door, or the government building with the “gun free zone” sign on the door… Didn’t we already go over this? Let’s put this in terms that a lefty lib can understand… Remember in high school buying dope from your guy right under the “drug free zone” sign? Well?? ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/56 "2013-09-17T02:53:32Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > These fundamentally broken people will always follow the path of least resistance and there will always be places where guns are rarer than other places. Arguing for a moral responsibility to go out armed just results in a race to the bottom, the lowest common denominator from which a society can dysfunctionally operate. When everyone has guns, you’ll just start seeing a lot more pressure cookers. So what you’re saying is that the gun is just a tool and banning madness and violence is futile. I agree. But… denying me of my inherent right to self-defense is immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/57 "2013-09-17T02:58:44Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > Huh? That’s why they walk to the theater with the “gun free zone” sign on the door, or the school with the “gun free zone” sign on the door, or the government building with the “gun free zone” sign on the door… Didn’t we already go over this? Yes, and I asked why mass-murder-minded Americans don’t go to Canada, which is essentially one big “gun free zone”. ---
**Author:** ![superslug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@superslug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superslug)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/58 "2013-09-17T03:00:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, and I asked why mass-murder-minded Americans don’t go to Canada, which is essentially one big “gun free zone”. And I answered that there are plenty of target of opportunity within walking distance. Are you paying attention? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/59 "2013-09-17T03:09:17Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The OP is an excellent example of the sublime beauty of Poe’s Law. FTFY: [QUOTE=Rhythmdvl] The thread is an excellent example of the sublime beauty of Poe’s Law. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014/60 "2013-09-17T03:14:09Z")
> [@superslug](#): > > And I answered that there are plenty of target of opportunity within walking distance. Are you paying attention? So even in border states, where Canada is within walking (well, a short drive, anyway) distance, are there murder-minded Americans who see Canadians as easy targets? It’s not my fault your premise is ill-considered with easy-to-spot flaws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-grabbers/669014.md?page=4)