# Gun lovers don't see how far gone they are.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933 "2012-11-23T20:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/221 "2012-11-27T04:32:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If you outlaw chainsaws, then only outlaws will have chainsaws! Outlaws and lumberjacks. Lumberjacks are never outlaws, they are okay. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/222 "2012-11-27T06:21:21Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Oh, please, stop. Even for this board you are getting rather carried away with yourself. How lucky for the Brits that they have you to stand between them and me. Why, they ought to make you a peer of the realm for your exemplary courage. > You go ahead and monitor me, little rooty-toot, if that is really the best thing you can think of to do with your allotted lifespan. When you finally jump out with what believe is your triumphant GOT YA!!! moment, please don’t be too disappointed when I respond by horse laughing at you. Go clean your gun with the safety off, Homer. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/223 "2012-11-27T11:10:21Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Go clean your gun with the safety off, Homer. First the chainsaw thing, now this. Twice in a single thread you’ve wished harm on another, albeit worded in a weaselly enough way to stay within the board rules. Angry, violent fantasies a coping mechanism for you much? ---
**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/224 "2012-11-27T11:28:53Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That’s exactly what I condemn. What a pile of ineffectual horseshit. Worst part and what completely differentiates the UDHR from the USC & Bill of Rights are their respective “take back” clauses . . . For the UDHR the “take back” clause is Article 29 § 3, allowing any party government or the UN to rescind any or all rights established by the UDHR if they are exercised in a fashion that the UN doesn’t like. For the USC & BoR the “take back” clause is the 2nd Amendment which recognizes the original right of self defense of the citizens and secures the means for the people to rescind the powers they lent to government if they don’t like how government is acting . . . > [@gamerunknown](#): > > Article 2, section 2, clause 2 of the USC. ??? > [@gamerunknown](#): > > Edit: Speaking of Orwell, did you recall the bit where he joined the fascists in sniping at the Revolutionary Marxist group POUM in Homage to Catalonia? Because I certainly don’t. No but I did like where he was a doctor and he had use his huge penis to show a woman how to have orgasms because her clitoris was in her throat. That was a good one! I wasn’t speaking of Orwell specifically but to how this redefining of rights fits well with the \*\*\*nature \*\*\*of newspeak; dismissing as oldspeak and sending the original “_exceptions of powers never granted_” rights down the memoryhole. Instead we are forced to accept Ingsoc and its “rights” to heathcare & prescriptions, a living wage, housing and a phone to be delivered to the prole by Miniplenty. ---
**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/225 "2012-11-27T11:32:59Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Hell, I have half an inkling to post as a pro-gun person to show you how its done :rolleyes: LOL, please give that a go; I’m sure it will be compelling and address the issue in ways never seen before . . . ---
**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/226 "2012-11-27T11:35:28Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Not all who thought it was well-poisoning were pro-gun. All pro-gun people thought it was well-poisoning. All people who didn’t think it was well-poisoning were pro-gun control. OK, you have identified a “thing”. Care to explain what it is and why it manifests itself so? ---
**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/227 "2012-11-27T12:24:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If all you got from that is that the OP complained about people being mean, then you don’t understand at all. This is why its impossible to have a debate with you people. Hell, I have half an inkling to post as a pro-gun person to show you how its done :rolleyes: Why don’t you demonstrate your keen powers of written persuasion by rebutting anything that I originally posted to the OP in GD (which he/she/it/nobody ever responded to). I have been doing this gun-rights / gun-control debate thing for a while _for real_ from the pro-gun side and I can converse about it on all levels, respectful and reserved and completely cited and supported or down in the gutter. I can operate effectively and comfortably in either setting. So, have a go superstar, because _ **here** _ is why this pro-gunner thinks the OP was poisoning the well . . . Interesting is that the OP of that thread affirms the disingenuousness of his/her/its “can’t we just talk” thread [**HERE**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15726244&postcount=224) . . . START---------\> > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > Is is possible to ask that question without being accused of being anti-liberty? Of course it is. Problem is that the noble endeavor of fighting crime and protecting society has been co-opted by those who desire to control citizens and serve a political agenda. > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > Is it possible to answer that question with something other than “automatic weapons for all, concealed carry everywhere” without being accused wanting to outlaw all guns? Is the NRA or any other notable gun rights organization fighting for a complete dismantling of gun laws / regulations and handing out guns to everyone? Would an initiative to achieve that get the NRA’s endorsement? As an active Endowment Member for 14 years and an active Life Member for 15 years before that, I think I have a grasp on their positions and I would argue NO, they don’t want that. OTOH, would the organizations who would be leading and framing the “discussion” from the anti-gun side like the Brady Campaign and VPC, Million Mom March, StopHandgunViolence, Gun Control Network, etc, etc, etc, accept and support an initiative to ban guns? Of course they would, they already have done so for local handgun bans and local, state and national “Assault Weapon” bans. Do you really think that they have any concern for the traditions and heritage of hunting or target shooting in this nation or the destructive to society “rights” claimed by gun owners LOL? Is it really unreasonable to believe they wouldn’t jump on the chance to push lawmakers to write laws completely disarming the general population of the USA? > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > Can we have an honest conversation about trying to curb gun violence in America or are gun owners too paranoid and too quick to demonize anyone without a gun rack and an NRA membership as a pinko commie liberal hippie? Can we have an honest conversation about trying to curb gun violence in America or are gun-haters too focused on demonizing “law-abiding” gun owners as criminals who just haven’t been convicted yet and portraying the NRA as a terrorist organization that only wants to sell six year old’s full auto revolver bullet hoses and putting nuclear bombs on the playground instead of dangerous Jungle Gyms? > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > Or is it really impossible to even ask that question and seek answers that would protect both the US Constitution and US citizens? Your side must prove first that preserving / protecting the Constitution is actually a priority. Up to now the question of constitutionality is never a concern during the crafting of crime / gun policy, it only becomes important when the law is challenged. Then we have the goofy situation of government defending gun control laws written under the commerce clause as legitimate under Congress’ authority to regulate the militia. That’s why the power of appointment of judges and Justices is so important and why installing ones that will dismiss / ignore / violate the Constitution is such a priority for the left. > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > I assure you: I don’t want to take away your legally owned and used for hunting and protection guns. Well, I don’t believe you. You can claim to not want our sporting guns but if you wish to argue that the groups noted above wouldn’t take them given the chance to throw them in the bag with “Assault Weapons” and handguns, then I must respectfully disagree with you. I would like to hear your argument though, just for argument’s sake . . . I have been debating gun control / gun rights for over 20 years with thousands of anti-gun people and the popular term now of “gun violence” is a dog whistle term that is nothing but a head fake and this thread is evidence of that . . . All this concern for how gun-owners will react and your reassurance above as to your motives in wanting to begin a _ **discussion** _ on gun violence tells us that while willing to dismiss the havoc caused by the murderers, rapists and robbers walking in your midst you are willing to use that behavior as the benchmark for setting public policy. Because someone might use a gun you focus your attention on the gun and those who have the audacity to defend owning such a destructive device. We gun rights supporters are demonized as standing in the way, being an unreasonable impediment to installing the societal structures you embrace, including but not limited to “common sense” gun control (which is why it is important to paint the NRA as not just a gun rights org. but a radical right wing org supporting all manner of right wing causes). Anti’s consider legal gun owners to be the savages of society primarily for claiming the dangerous and unnecessary right of self-defense (not recognizing the incongruity LOL). Another reason I don’t trust you is that the people most vocal claiming to want to design gun policy are usually completely ignorant of firearms and their nomenclature; they demonstrate complete ignorance of the most simple functions of firearms as mechanical objects (full-auto / semi=auto), let alone technical aspects like ballistics (medium caliber “Assault Weapons” being “high powered”). What it comes down to and what poisons the discussion now is that anti’s ‘just know’ that guns are ‘bad’ and no amount of reason based discussion will dissuade that emotional based position. In fact, such ignorance is worn as a badge of honor because anti’s don’t want to seen sharing _anything_, even knowledge, with Neanderthal gun-nuts. > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > I assure you: I don’t want to take away your legally owned and used for hunting and protection guns. But I want less gun violence in this country, particularly in the urban area that I live in. I live and raised my kids in Killadelphia. What are you gonna tell me about violent urban areas? More to the point, what are you _ **really** _ willing to discuss about violent urban areas? > [@Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/1): > > Can we even have this conversation? Or is the only response of gun supporters to scream “SECOND AMENDMENT” so loudly that they drown out the cries of mothers grieving their dead children from gun violence? Oh yeah, another reason I don’t trust you. Because you constantly portray us so uncaring about violence that we relax at the end of a long day shooting puppies with recordings of the “cries of mothers grieving their dead children from gun violence”. well, at least when we aren’t kicking it to _Es zittern die morschen Knochen_. \*\*More laws we do not need, become more laws they will not enforce, which becomes further evidence that more laws are needed. \*\* That’s the siren song of gun control; the ineffectiveness of each new enactment proves the need for further restrictions . . . Jamaica is a perfect example of the failure of laws, now they have turned to the only thing remaining, draconian enforcement. That is the scenario that fuels the frustration that gun owners feel and fuels our resistance to your “common sense” gun laws. The present confrontational level of discourse is a natural outcome of the constant blame for criminal or psychopathic behavior placed on gun owners and their “evil instrumentality” the NRA. This laying of moral blame for violent crime at the feet of the law-abiding, and the implicit absolution of violent criminals for their misdeeds, naturally infuriates me and other honest gun owners. The failure (that’s really being kind, failure means at least an attempt was made) to prosecute and incarcerate those who do break the law and your (the anti-liberty side’s) willingness to single out and demonize the law-abiding is illegitimate, unconscionable and in the end, unforgivable. One might, if one wasn’t concerned with being PC, claim that your side and the government are the\*\*\* real \*\*\*co-conspirators and accomplices of murderers, rapists, and thugs. Government’s inaction enforcing laws and your constant blame of law-abiding gun owners (which equates a tacit absolution of criminal’s aberrant behavior) states loudly that you believe the disorganized, random havoc created by criminals are far less a threat to your concept of “society” than are men and women who believe themselves free and independent, and act accordingly. Guess what, we might finally agree on something! \<----------------END So, are you game (more to the point of the intellectual capacity of leftist anti-gunners, are you still with me or was that TLDR)? Awaiting my being wowed by your skilz Yog (or anyone else).. ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/228 "2012-11-27T13:00:53Z")
> [@Abatis](#): > > According to you fucktards, we have NO right to keep and bear arms and certainly no right to defend ourselves from the criminals you coddle This ( with the ‘swimming pool’-argument ) is the most annoying one that keeps on repeating. **Abatis** , will You explain how You can translate ‘I want those \*\*\*\*ing psychos to stop their shooting rampages’ into ‘I like those sweet, cuddly murderers’ ?!?!?! Also I don’t remember seeing much ( if any ) ‘ban all guns, no exceptions’, because that argument indeed is stupid. Responsible persons, keep Your guns, I don’t care. Most of these ‘anti-gun nuts’ ( included Me ) say: I Myself like to shoot, nothing wrong with that, guns are cool, but I sure hope mentally unstable and violent people shouldn’t get guns so easily. - Do You disagree with that, **Abatis**? Or any of You? ( I can’t help seeing anyone who disagrees nothing but a mentally unstable and violent person who fears losing his guns. ) ETA: couldn’t be bothered to read all of Your previous post, too long, so feel free to use that as an excuse to dismiss My post… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/229 "2012-11-27T13:38:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Not all who thought it was well-poisoning were pro-gun. All pro-gun people thought it was well-poisoning. All people who didn’t think it was well-poisoning were pro-gun control. All people who thought it wasn’t well-poisoning were stupid. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/230 "2012-11-27T13:58:41Z")
> [@Freakenstein](#): > > This ( with the ‘swimming pool’-argument ) is the most annoying one that keeps on repeating. That is not the ‘swimming pool argument’. > [@Freakenstein](#): > > **Abatis** , will You explain how You can translate ‘I want those \*\*\*\*ing psychos to stop their shooting rampages’ into ‘I like those sweet, cuddly murderers’ ?!?!?! Leftist social engineering policies have infected the mental health and criminal justice system and have created a ‘catch and release’ conservation program for kooks and criminals. You keep letting them out while telling the law-abiding to live their lives in the society you have created full of homicidal maniacs with the means to defend oneself forcibly removed. This is quite evident in the oft heard gun control rant that because cities (usually Democrat led for decades) are such hellholes of crime and death and the social misfits that prey on the cities use guns, cities should be allowed to have the strictest gun control they wish because nobody should have a gun in Chicago because Chicago and Montana are so different they demand different laws (so much for equality) . . . > [@Freakenstein](#): > > Also I don’t remember seeing much ( if any ) ‘ban all guns, no exceptions’, because that argument indeed is stupid. Responsible persons, keep Your guns, I don’t care. Did I claim that anyone wants to ban all guns? I was just making a point that when arguing the extremes (pro-gunners want no laws and guns for everyone vs anti-gunners want to ban guns) the positions of the frontline groups (NRA vs Brady et al and hardcore anti-politicians i.e., Sen Feinstein) show the anti side would welcome the extreme if it could be had. > [@Freakenstein](#): > > Most of these ‘anti-gun nuts’ ( included Me ) say: I Myself like to shoot, nothing wrong with that, guns are cool, but I sure hope mentally unstable and violent people shouldn’t get guns so easily. - Do You disagree with that, **Abatis**? Or any of You? No but the majority of proposals to “_keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them_” focus on restricting the law-abiding first . . . Think of it as ‘trickle-down’ crime fighting, maybe then you would understand LOL. The actual endeavor of keeping guns away from criminals and the mentally unstable would require more work than you leftists are willing to take on. The toolbox is full of effective laws to remedy much of what ails us but it isn’t worth the trouble because the abhorrent criminal actions is fodder to advance your agenda. The _ **real problems and the real** _ remedies will never be acted on by leftists. > [@Freakenstein](#): > > ETA: couldn’t be bothered to read all of Your previous post, too long, so feel free to use that as an excuse to dismiss My post… Like I said, the simple action of reading an opposing viewpoint is too much trouble. That’s why your side will never solve anything. You want instant gratification and the subject summed up in two paragraphs or less and be “solved” with a new law. Complicated intermingling of constitutional issues are dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/231 "2012-11-27T14:03:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > All people who thought it wasn’t well-poisoning were stupid. > > Regards, > Shodan Hell, I thought it was well-poisoning, so I wrote this way back in post #89: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > **John\_Stamos’\_Left\_Ear** is being accused of poisoning the well by the way he phrased his query, and he claims that the well is already poisoned and he was pointing out how in his op, so let’s put that to the test. Could one of you who think he phrased his title and op wrong please rephrase both title and OP in such a way that neither poisons the well? I’ll start a thread in Great Debates using that same title and OP, and we’ll see if it goes in a different direction than the one currently running in GD. Any takers? So far, I’ve had one suggestion for a title, and none for the OP itself. Care to give it a try, **Shodan**? Anybody? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/232 "2012-11-27T14:11:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hell, I thought it was well-poisoning, so I wrote this way back in post #89:So far, I’ve had one suggestion for a title, and none for the OP itself. Care to give it a try, **Shodan**? > Anybody? There are two perfectly reasonable debates going on on this subject in GD right now. The thread you started, and the thread that inspired this OP. That being said, I don’t see that anyone has a responsibility to correct the poisoned well OP, nor should they be called out for not doing so. There are plenty of good debates going on inspired by well-thought-out OPs without having to babysit the bad ones. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/233 "2012-11-27T14:44:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hell, I thought it was well-poisoning, so I wrote this way back in post #89:So far, I’ve had one suggestion for a title, and none for the OP itself. Care to give it a try, **Shodan**? > Anybody? Don’t you know how to start a thread? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/234 "2012-11-27T15:08:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Don’t you know how to start a thread? If you could shut off the snark for just _one_ post, would you mind telling me if the following OP has any well-poisoning in your opinion: “What measures could society take to reduce gun violence in the US…and would those measures be worth the return on investment for society as a whole?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/235 "2012-11-27T15:16:33Z")
Oh, so you would crush the _individual_ rights of the gun-owner on behalf of some _collective_ benefit? Is that your position, Mr. Trotsky? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/236 "2012-11-27T15:18:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, so you would crush the _individual_ rights of the gun-owner on behalf of some _collective_ benefit? Is that your position, Mr. Trotsky? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/237 "2012-11-27T15:20:02Z")
Why are you fishing around for people’s approval? Either start the damn thread, or don’t. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![furdmort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@furdmort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furdmort)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/238 "2012-11-27T15:25:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you could shut off the snark for just _one_ post, would you mind telling me if the following OP has any well-poisoning in your opinion: > “What measures could society take to reduce gun violence in the US…and would those measures be worth the return on investment for society as a whole?” Actually, as has I’ve said here and in other threads, the problem isn’t the guns. The problem is the violence. Fix the things that cause people to join gangs, get them into a normal life style where they have better options than crime and violence. Once the violence goes down, so will gun violence - automatically and without infringing those constitutionally guaranteed rights. Fixing the real problems is HARD, and will take time and determination. Passing gun control laws takes outrage and weak willed politicians who want to appear to be doing something without actually putting in the real effort needed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/239 "2012-11-27T15:34:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Why are you fishing around for people’s approval? Either start the damn thread, or don’t. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m just showing everyone that you are a slimy acid-tongued toad who delights in bitching for bitching’s sake. When it comes to topics like this the well is _always_ poisoned in your opinion-otherwise you wouldn’t bother participating in them. You have no interest whatsoever in solutions because then there would be nothing to sling your cheap-ass cheap shots at, would there? If nothing else, you’ve cetainly made a name for yourself here at the SDMB. People have come to understand that if a post ends with “Regard, Shodan” what usually preceeds it is bile without substance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933/240 "2012-11-27T15:37:44Z")
> [@furdmort](#): > > Actually, as has I’ve said here and in other threads, the problem isn’t the guns. The problem is the violence. Fix the things that cause people to join gangs, get them into a normal life style where they have better options than crime and violence. Once the violence goes down, so will gun violence - automatically and without infringing those constitutionally guaranteed rights. > > Fixing the real problems is HARD, and will take time and determination. Passing gun control laws takes outrage and weak willed politicians who want to appear to be doing something without actually putting in the real effort needed. Well, the OP doesn’t mention gun laws in particular-it’s open to _any_ measures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-lovers-dont-see-how-far-gone-they-are/641933.md?page=13)