# Gun murders **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683 "2004-01-04T19:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/1 "2004-01-04T19:06:47Z")
How many _murders_ are committed in America with guns each year? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/2 "2004-01-04T19:27:36Z")
[Crimes committed with firearms, 1973-2002](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/guncrimetab.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/3 "2004-01-04T20:20:34Z")
Does the number of murders in the link include all homicides (including self-defense)? ---
**Author:** ![venterap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@venterap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/venterap)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/4 "2004-01-04T20:29:49Z")
The ref. page says specifically “murders” and “aggravated assault”. It actually does not say “homicides” although I think culpable homicide could _maybe_ fall in the murder or aggravated assault category? Self-defence (legal) does not fall into any of these categories. ---
**Author:** ![Pepsi\_Classic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/5 "2004-01-04T20:51:38Z")
Another question, why don’t the total murders go up in 2001? I would think with the 3,000 murders of the September 11 attacks the number would spike. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/6 "2004-01-04T20:59:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pepsi Classic \* > \*\*Another question, why don’t the total murders go up in 2001? I would think with the 3,000 murders of the September 11 attacks the number would spike. \*\* Huh? You DID ask for the number of murders comitted with GUNS, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/7 "2004-01-04T21:01:34Z")
Nevermind, you’re probably talking about the bottom line for 2001. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/8 "2004-01-04T21:26:26Z")
Those figures can’t possibly be true. Some years (about 5) ago, the US Congress was debating some gun law, and the rallying cry was that “4000 children per year were killed by guns.” Every single congressperson who took to the floor cited that figure, although some chose to say “13 children per day,” instead. So, once again, those figures can’t possibly be true. . . . That, or some congresspersons were using some strange unsupported statistics for their own purposes. (No one in Congress ever calls for “CITE!”) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/9 "2004-01-04T21:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker \* > \*\*Those figures can’t possibly be true. Some years (about 5) ago, the US Congress was debating some gun law, and the rallying cry was that “4000 children per year were killed by guns.” \*\* I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the following, but it may help in offering insight: > [@](#): > > **Do Gun Opponents Commonly Inflate Children Death Statistics?** > > On June 29th, a fax poll was discussed in The Daily Commentary in which it was stated, according to Century 21 Faxes, 4,000 children die each year by guns. Although this author knew that this figure was greatly inflated, the true facts came across my desk several days later when I received a Department of Justice (DoJ) report entitled Children as Victims, dated May 2000 (NCJ 180753). > > Here are the facts: > > 1. According to the DoJ report, a total of 2,100 children between the ages of 6 and 17 were murdered in 1997 from every possible means available. Of this number, 56% were murdered with a firearm, or a total of 1,176. > 2. Also, according to the World Almanac and Book of Facts, 1997, so far as accidental shootings are concerned, 205 children between the ages of 1 and 14 died in 1993. Source: [http://www.geocities.com/abcolombo/jul00/071300.htm](http://www.geocities.com/abcolombo/jul00/071300.htm) However, we also have this: > [@](#): > > Firearm deaths for children and teens dropped significantly between 1997 and 1998, according to a new mortality statistics report released today by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The report shows 3,792 children and adolescents under age 20 died in 1998 from firearms, down 10 percent from 4,223 in 1997, and down 35 percent from the high of 5,833 in 1994. This is a decrease from 16 deaths per day in 1994 to 10 deaths per day in 1998. The new statistics were published in a report, “Deaths: Final Data for 1998,” prepared by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Health Statistics (CDC, NCHS). > > “Each day, 10 children and teens are killed by firearms, and that is 10 too many,” said HHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala. “However, it is significant decrease from four years earlier. This indicates that violence prevention efforts are showing results. But we all know how far we still have to go to protect our young people from gun deaths and injuries.” > > Overall, 30,708 people died of firearms in 1998, a 5 percent drop from 1997 and a 22 percent drop from the high of 39,595 in 1993. The age-adjusted death rate from firearms was 11.3 deaths per 100,000 population in 1998, a 7.4 percent drop from 12.2 in 1997 and down sharply from the high of 15.6 in 1993. Source: [http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2000pres/20000724.html](http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2000pres/20000724.html) So which government report do you wish to believe? The Department of Justice? The Department of Health & Human Services? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/10 "2004-01-04T21:54:35Z")
Well I think it makes a big difference if you’re looking at “under 14” or “under 20”. At any rate, I don’t see how the linked statistics contradict a stat of 4000 per year. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/11 "2004-01-04T22:02:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Well I think it makes a big difference if you’re looking at “under 14” or “under 20”. > > At any rate, I don’t see how the linked statistics contradict a stat of 4000 per year. I find it funny that legal adults are lumped into the same category as “children”. ---
**Author:** ![Xgemina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b5e925/32.png) [@Xgemina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xgemina)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/12 "2004-01-04T22:04:01Z")
Um, **Duckster** , it’s not so much a question so much which government report you want to believe–But what you consider to be children for the purpose of the respective studies. The studies define children differently DoJ: between 6 & 17 HHS: under 20 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/13 "2004-01-04T22:45:44Z")
Contradict, no. Possibly statistically anomalous that over a third of gun deaths are “children,” yes. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/14 "2004-01-04T23:14:40Z")
“Children” includes teenage gang related shootings, teenaged drug dealers being knocked off, and the like. Not all of these “children” are innocent, or undeserving of some major _legal_ punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-murders/222683/15 "2004-01-04T23:55:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker \* > Contradict, no. Possibly statistically anomalous that over a third of gun deaths are “children,” yes. Oh okay. The way you said it sounded like there was a direct contradiction. Anyway, I guess **Duckster** ’s cite clears up how the congresspeople misinterpreted “children”.