# Gun nuts threaten gun store owner for selling gun they don't like **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584 "2014-05-03T15:31:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/121 "2014-05-04T09:02:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You suspect wrong. > > “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice”. I appreciate Goldwater’s statement. Yours - who cares. > [@Terr](#): > > No but you do have a Constitutional right to bear arms, for self-defense. Which would be violated if “smart guns” are the only ones allowed on the market. > If there was no law that would violate the Constitutional rights of others by them being able to buy that gun, I would have absolutely no problem with them buying it. > [@Terr](#): > > His actions directly lead to Second Amendment rights violation (again, if that law exists). > > And of course the legislature is to blame. But so is the shopkeeper. He is aware (or if he wasn’t, he was made aware) that his actions will directly lead to violating the Second Amendment rights of people. I am glad he decided to desist. And this is where **Terr** tips his hat. I’m not even mad at this. How could I be? This is like Christopher Monckton or some of the callers on The Atheist Experience - there’s no fucking way he’s not a poe. Nobody is this dumb except on purpose. He’s trolling us, guys. Just walk away. He’s either trolling or the dumbest person I have ever seen. If I met someone this dumb on the street, I would reconsider my position on mandatory euthanasia for the mentally retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/122 "2014-05-04T09:22:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And this is where **Terr** tips his hat. I’m not even mad at this. How could I be? This is like Christopher Monckton or some of the callers on The Atheist Experience - there’s no fucking way he’s not a poe. Nobody is this dumb except on purpose. He’s a libertarian or something similar; there’s no real limit to how crazy such people can get. Whatever he wants to do or believe is the One True Way because he wants it, and the only right that matters is his right to do as he pleases regardless of consequences. That’s libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/123 "2014-05-04T10:37:39Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I have no idea how this is relevant to the thread, but fuck yes. If another country is occupying us, it’s total fucking war and anything goes. I asked the question because I knew it would cause Terr to spin like a dumbass dog in pursuit of his tail. He didn’t disappoint me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/124 "2014-05-04T11:01:14Z")
I’m on the fence regarding guns yet I would have been interested in checking out the gun in question. Guess I won’t be able to exercise my 2nd amendment rights. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/125 "2014-05-04T12:56:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s just sick. They threatened to burn down his place of business and hurt him physically. Yep, and the gun wing nuts in this country firmly believe that the right to burn down his place of business and hurt him physically is their right under the 2nd Amendment. If you don’t agree with them, they’ll come find you too. It’s 2014. In 1934 people started thinking this way in Germany. They became known as Nazis. Welcome to America. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/126 "2014-05-04T13:36:59Z")
Double-post. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/127 "2014-05-04T13:39:32Z")
> [@Me](#): > > [Quote=Terr] > > Defending their Constitutional rights. Which rights in particular? [/quote] Terr, I’m still not sure which Constitutional right(s) these people were defending. Little help? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/128 "2014-05-04T13:54:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > About as much of a “freedom” as doing a “sit in”/trespassing is. Making anonymous threats in private is the same as being publicly held accountable for trespassing? And I thought [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=722235) would be the most repulsive analogy of the week to hold an equivalence between American civil rights activists of the 50’s and 60’s and thuggish criminals. Boy, was I wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/129 "2014-05-04T14:23:53Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > This is why I often laugh when gun nuts describe themselves as law abiding citizens. Scratch the surface and little brownshirts emerge. You have had multiple contributers here who are strong gun rights advocates roundly condemn the actions of those who threatened the gun shop owner and those who support those who threatened and those who incited those who threatened. One contributer, I think, who did not. Looking on some of the gun rights sites I find things like [this](http://bearingarms.com/massive-blowback-engage-armament-backs-plan-selling-armatix-smart-gun/): > [@](#): > > Those gun owners that contacted the store and rationally explained the law to Mr. Raymond in a logical and civilized manner are to be commended for your actions. > > Those who called the store and threatened Mr. Raymond—and I hope none of our readers are involved—should be ashamed of themselves. Some of course who pretend that the threats never happened. Not too many who support them. Do you define a true “gun nut” to be someone who if you scratch the surface a little brownshirt emerges so those gun rights advocates who condemn such tactics are not true “gun nuts”? The NRA, and more so the crazies who threaten people, do not represent all gun rights advocates. My impression (as someone who is not a gun rights advocate but whose gun control position has softened after being convinced by reasoned debate here) is that most who support gun rights condemn the sorts of tactics used in this case and that few feel the NRA represents them well. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/130 "2014-05-04T15:13:37Z")
I’m a very firm believer and advocate in firearms for self-defense, and I unconditionally condemn those who made threats or put threatening pressure on a shop owner trying to sell the smart guns. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/131 "2014-05-04T16:23:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d like to see a cite for “gun shops can only sell smart guns” being a violation of the Second Amendment. … particularly the part that says, " … infringed" > **[Second Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)** > > The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. It was ratified on December 15, 1791, along with nine other articles of the Bill of Rights. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court affirmed for the first time that the right belongs to individuals, for self-defense in the home, while also including, as dicta, that the right is not unlimited and does not preclude the existence of certain long-sta The Second Amend... ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/132 "2014-05-04T16:27:32Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > I’m on the fence regarding guns yet I would have been interested in checking out the gun in question. Guess I won’t be able to exercise my 2nd amendment rights. ☹ Consider blaming the law makers who tied selling the smart gun with banning all the other guns. They will get re-elected over things like Union issues, gay marriage, entitlements. How can politicians who are reasonable about so many other issues be such butt-heads about one issue? ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/133 "2014-05-04T16:29:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > And why the fuck would you blame the store owner anyways - this is obviously a ploy to ban guns. The legislature for whatever reason couldn’t do it outright so they pull this bullshit. Do you also blame every single person who voted for their state legislator in New Jersey? Is it also acceptable to threaten them - I mean their actions are allowing violations of the 2nd amendment. > > I have no idea how this is relevant to the thread, but fuck yes. If another country is occupying us, it’s total fucking war and anything goes. Occupied Palestine, 1948-Present Occupied Iraq, 2003-? Occupied Afghanistan, 2001-Present Do you believe in the universality of ethics? What if there’s disagreement over the intentions/effects of the occupiers (British in Palestine, Soviets in Afghanistan)? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/134 "2014-05-04T16:33:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Can somebody shoot Terr’s goalposts? Right now they’re running around like panicked impalas. I’m still amused by this bit from the first page: > [@Terr](#): > > If it is true that once the “smart” gun is offered for sale in one store, the clock starts ticking until only “smart” guns are allowed for sale everywhere in the state, then I support the “gun nuts” using any method/pressure short of breaking laws (or even breaking laws in “civil disobedience” sense) to prevent that from happening. > [@running\_coach](#): > > You supported threats towards the gun store that included arson. That’s a crime right there. > [@Terr](#): > > A misdemeanor in defense of Constitutional rights. “It’s only a misdemeanor so it doesn’t cout as ‘breaking laws!’” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/135 "2014-05-04T17:25:50Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Ah, yes. The freedom to threaten other people with violence. One of those freedoms you don’t hear about so much. Didn’t Norman Rockwell paint that for his Four Freedoms series? (googling) No, I guess it was George Lincoln Rockwell. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/136 "2014-05-04T17:29:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You have had multiple contributers here who are strong gun rights advocates roundly condemn the actions of those who threatened the gun shop owner and those who support those who threatened and those who incited those who threatened. One contributer, I think, who did not. > > Looking on some of the gun rights sites I find things like [this](http://bearingarms.com/massive-blowback-engage-armament-backs-plan-selling-armatix-smart-gun/): > > Some of course who pretend that the threats never happened. Not too many who support them. > > Do you define a true “gun nut” to be someone who if you scratch the surface a little brownshirt emerges so those gun rights advocates who condemn such tactics are not true “gun nuts”? > > The NRA, and more so the crazies who threaten people, do not represent all gun rights advocates. My impression (as someone who is not a gun rights advocate but whose gun control position has softened after being convinced by reasoned debate here) is that most who support gun rights condemn the sorts of tactics used in this case and that few feel the NRA represents them well. Gun nut =! gun rights advocate. The word “nut” to me, would indicate someone who is, well, nuts. Like the people in the article. Crazy people. Not normal, rational people who believe in their Second Amendment rights. Most people I know who keep and use guns aren’t nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/137 "2014-05-04T17:29:35Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > It’s only a misdemeanor so it doesn’t cout as ‘breaking laws!’" Did I say it doesn’t count? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/138 "2014-05-04T18:36:02Z")
Terroristic threats aren’t a misdemeanor anyway. Not that New Jersey actually classifies crimes as felonies and misdemeanors. And not that the actual meaning of any of these words is worth clarifying considering the context. But, you know, if anyone wondered whether threatening to burn down somebody’s store is really a slap on the wrist kind of deal. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/139 "2014-05-04T18:50:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Gun nut =! gun rights advocate. The word “nut” to me, would indicate someone who is, well, nuts. Like the people in the article. Crazy people. Not normal, rational people who believe in their Second Amendment rights. > > Most people I know who keep and use guns aren’t nuts. Hence the true Scotsman reference. Thing is though that many of these discussions descend and become “gun nut” vs “gun grabber” depictions of each other and to my read that comment by **MfM** was clearly implying that those who are for Gun Rights and are law abiding are nuts and brownshirts when the surface is scratched. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584/140 "2014-05-04T19:52:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You have had multiple contributers here who are strong gun rights advocates roundly condemn the actions of those who threatened the gun shop owner and those who support those who threatened and those who incited those who threatened. … > > Looking on some of the gun rights sites… Some of course who pretend that the threats never happened. Not too many who support them. > > Do you define a true “gun nut” to be someone who if you scratch the surface a little brownshirt emerges so those gun rights advocates who condemn such tactics are not true “gun nuts”? > > …is that most who support gun rights condemn the sorts of tactics used in this case… Gun nuttery is a continuum, not pinpoint. Qualities include paranoia, pomposity, a blinkered reading of international history, and a conveniently anti-scientific take on well know statistical patterns. While gun nuts tend to be fanatic, most have the social sense to keep their threats of violence anonymous. I think thinly veiled self-satisfied murderous fantasies -seeing lethal self defense as anything other than regrettable- along with a wildly disproportionate perception of the abilities of unorganized fat middle aged firearms possessors to defeat modern militaries and uphold internationally recognizable human rights bolted on to a laughable reading of military history are some of the aspects of the American gun nut. But don’t forget the pomposity. > [@](#): > > …and that few feel the NRA represents them well. Those who fully understand that the NRA is a coalition of loons, gulls, rubes and swallows which fronts for an industry lobby don’t belong to that organization and actively oppose it. How many US private arsenal advocates fall under that category? Thirty? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-nuts-threaten-gun-store-owner-for-selling-gun-they-dont-like/687584.md?page=8)