# Gun owners - would you support this compromise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127 "2011-01-27T00:39:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/181 "2011-01-29T23:34:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No, actually it is much simpler than that. When a stolen gun is used in a crime, the gun owner would have to prove he had a gun safe or equivqlent security measures. Now, I suppose a gun owner could buy those after the gun was stolen to shield himself from prosecution, but nothing is perfect. That would take the gun police out of the equation. What are the minimum standards that you would require for storage? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/182 "2011-01-29T23:43:07Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > That would take the gun police out of the equation. What are the minimum standards that you would require for storage? Something like a locked, approved gun safe that is permanently bolted to the structure. Trigger locks and lock boxes don’t prevent theft, the thief can take them and overcome them at his leisure elsewhere. I accept that gun theft cannot be eliminated completely. But we can reduce it, and gun owners must accept most of the responsibility for making fewer stolen guns available to criminals. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/183 "2011-01-30T12:42:52Z")
So, you’re of the opinion that store owners and homeowners who keep guns for self-defense should not have them available for said use? Remember, a similar bit of legislation was deemed unconstitutional quite recently because the demand for said storage stopped the use of guns for self-defense. You’re also turning guns into something only the rich can own, increasing the barriers to a constitutional right dramatically. And, of course, you’re suggesting that renters may not be allowed to own guns as they may not be allowed to modify their domicile in such a manner. [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html) Not to mention, of course, stolen guns are used in only ten to fifteen percent of crimes involving a gun. That’s some pretty heavy burden to put on the legal owner of a gun to stop a low-potential event. Why not work harder on making guns less available to criminals? The PBS article there suggests a few ways to reduce the eighty five to ninety percent of crimes that your suggestion wouldn’t cover at all. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/184 "2011-01-30T13:24:23Z")
What if the guns were only required to be locked up when the owner wasn’t at home? Use your S&W Model 10 or Remington M870 as a paperweight or have it near the bed all you like when you’re in the house, but when you leave the premises the gun either needs to come with you (if you’ve got a permit for it or you’re taking it hunting/to the range/whatever) or get locked in a gun safe. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/185 "2011-01-30T23:21:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > So, you’re of the opinion that store owners and homeowners who keep guns for self-defense should not have them available for said use? No, I am not of that opinion, and nothing I said could be honestly construed to mean that. Strap it on your hip, put it under the pillow, or in a drawer; but when you leave the house, lock it in the safe. > [@](#): > > Not to mention, of course, stolen guns are used in only ten to fifteen percent of crimes involving a gun. That’s some pretty heavy burden to put on the legal owner of a gun to stop a low-potential event. It is not a heavy burden compared to the potential for crime from stolen weapons. Though I expect many gun owners think _any_ accountability for the security of their guns is too much to ask, and would agree with you > [@](#): > > Why not work harder on making guns less available to criminals? The PBS article there suggests a few ways to reduce the eighty five to ninety percent of crimes that your suggestion wouldn’t cover at all. The perfect is not the enemy of the good. My proposal is not intended to solve all gun crime; I think 15% is a very good start. One step at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/186 "2011-01-30T23:23:03Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > What if the guns were only required to be locked up when the owner wasn’t at home? Use your S&W Model 10 or Remington M870 as a paperweight or have it near the bed all you like when you’re in the house, but when you leave the premises the gun either needs to come with you (if you’ve got a permit for it or you’re taking it hunting/to the range/whatever) or get locked in a gun safe. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/187 "2011-01-30T23:39:05Z")
Firearms are coveted booty for thieves and criminals of all sorts because they are tools of the trade and easily converted to cash on the black market. I’ve seen videos of people stealing ATMs with trucks and log chains. If they want it they will get it. Gun owners have been prosecuted for 3rd party negligence many times in the past. Responsible owners are just that. The idea of gubmit-imposed gun storage restrictions is simply ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/188 "2011-01-30T23:58:14Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Not really. We US gun owners often see attacks on our rights and realize that there are many who would love nothing more that to see those rights look something similar to the way that yours have become. I’m sure that some put up a fight in your homeland at one time but it was too little too late. > > I like my AK’s, my AR’s and my semi auto pistols without barrel length or caliber restrictions or registration or licensing. My guns, just like yours were, are not a threat to anyone and don’t need to be locked up at the local club. The fact that people thousands of miles away in another country are content with what they now have as opposed to what they have lost, baffles me. I’m glad that you are happy. We haven’t lost anything, Australians just don’t have a history like yours. We have never had a civil war or a government that shot it’s people, or a KKK who terrorized it’s citizens. See no reason why we need guns for self defense. We have not lost anything by having tight gun controls, in fact I sleep sound knowing my kids are not going to be exposed to many guns that are not under lock and key. Sheet if i lived in a crime ridden project etc I would get a gun, but I don’t and maybe just maybe gun control laws have something to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/189 "2011-01-31T00:49:04Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > We haven’t lost anything, Australians just don’t have a history like yours. We have never had a civil war or a government that shot it’s people… Does the Eureka Stockade count? ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/190 "2011-01-31T01:07:49Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Does the Eureka Stockade count? Nup, a small uprising by a few pissed off miners who didn’t want to pay high taxes. In hindsight many say it was significant but not by any stretch a civil war. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/191 "2011-01-31T02:28:47Z")
Can’t say I disagree with Martini’s option. If, of course, I was forced to do so. It’d just cost about six hundred bucks for a good safe. Which is not a horribly small chunk of change. (I’d need a oversized rifle safe.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/192 "2011-01-31T02:53:06Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Can’t say I disagree with Martini’s option. If, of course, I was forced to do so. It’d just cost about six hundred bucks for a good safe. Which is not a horribly small chunk of change. > (I’d need a oversized rifle safe.) How much do you pay for a good gun? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/193 "2011-01-31T03:01:02Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > We haven’t lost anything, Australians just don’t have a history like yours… Perhaps you didn’t lose anything, but [many](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTqD_bUhA10) [many](http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0805/gun_law_0501.jpg) [many](http://www.gunpundit.com/2008/australian_buyback.jpg) [many](http://www.io.com/~velte/aus001.jpg) others did. You seem content with that, which I stated earlier baffles me, but in the end, bully for you. > [@](#): > > …We have never had a civil war or a government that shot it’s people, or a KKK who terrorized it’s citizens. See no reason why we need guns for self defense. We have not lost anything by having tight gun controls, in fact I sleep sound knowing my kids are not going to be exposed to many guns that are not under lock and key. You may have never had a KKK, but your country has not exactly treated your Aboriginals as equals have they? My country isn’t perfect by any means, but you really have no leg to stand on decrying the racist past of mine so let’s end that hijack… ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/194 "2011-01-31T03:14:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How much do you pay for a good gun? Tough question as prices vary wildly, I paid $400 for a Ruger LCP CT this morning. I paid $1000 a few years ago for a Benelli Black Eagle for hunting, and my AR’s average around $7-1100 a pop. I have around 30 rifles and shotguns and another 20-30 handguns. When I built my home, I built a gun vault for around $3000. $1500 of that was for the door alone. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/195 "2011-01-31T10:10:27Z")
OP, why is it important to you to be able to own an assault rifle? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/196 "2011-01-31T10:57:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How much do you pay for a good gun? Depends. Anywhere from $60 to $600. Rarely more than that. I’m _very good_ at bargain hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/197 "2011-01-31T13:38:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > OP, why is it important to you to be able to own an assault rifle? I can’t speak for the OP, but for many 2A activists owning “evil black rifles” is a political statement in itself. I fall into that category. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/198 "2011-01-31T14:05:52Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > OP, why is it important to you to be able to own an assault rifle? This will lead to a hijack of the thread. The OP’s post does not address owning an assault rifle. It addresses the “assault weapons” ban - a term deliberately created by the law to confuse laymen to think they were banning assault rifles. The assault weapons bans do not ban assault rifles - they have nothing to do with them. If you want to know more, you can read [one of](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508266) [our many](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=478916) [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=267629) [on the](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275265) [subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275202) ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/199 "2011-01-31T14:18:40Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Firearms are coveted booty for thieves and criminals of all sorts because they are tools of the trade and easily converted to cash on the black market. I’ve seen videos of people stealing ATMs with trucks and log chains. If they want it they will get it. > > Gun owners have been prosecuted for 3rd party negligence many times in the past. Responsible owners are just that. The idea of gubmit-imposed gun storage restrictions is simply ludicrous. You are obscuring a bit. The “gubmint” Isn’t MAKING you do anything. You are totally free to accept the risk of theft. It is imposing consequences for leaving dangerous and high target property unsecured while you are gone. You can keep your weapons wherever you like. However, when a theft occurs and officer friendly comes to take your report he will ask you how and where your firearms were stored. He would do this anyway in the course of his investigation so no additional onus on you there either. If your answer is something like: In the gun safe/ lockbox/ basement with a separate lock, etc, He’ll thank you and leave. If you fail to secure your property beyond a simple external door lock, you are opening yourself to a ticket for negligence if your property cannot be recovered. Your laziness/cheapness/plain muleheadedness is causing both more work for the police, and an appreciable public danger. Nobody can prevent the thieves with trucks and chains from jacking a safe. That doesn’t mean that it’s pointless to do so. If you are going to argue that the majority of firearm thefts are conducted in such a manner then provide some cites. That type of theft is absurdly rare. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/200 "2011-01-31T15:36:20Z")
It’s my understanding that in Austrailia because ownership of a substantial gun safe is a requirement for firearm owners that the prices on such are much lower. I’d be in favor of some sort of safe subsidy that lowered the prices on a large, strong safe so that they weren’t as expensive as they can be now. As for the rest, I am unwilling to make any comprimises at all since I don’t think that we’ll need to. Word is that the [president is going to raise the gun control issue sometime in 2011](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/26/david-axelrod-obama-gun-control-debate_n_814596.html), which is a terribly naive move on his part, but I believe that it will be easily defeated and will give US gun owners plenty of room to start also axing some of the dumber restrictions that are currently on the books. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127.md?page=11)