# Gun owners - would you support this compromise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127 "2011-01-27T00:39:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/121 "2011-01-28T15:53:40Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I was replying to another poster regarding compromise ideas. I have no desire to argue the finer points. My suggest forces mandatory training and testing which is what so many cry for. Take it for what it’s worth. A “compromise” has to be constitutional. And your’s isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/122 "2011-01-28T16:03:36Z")
> [@villa](#): > > A “compromise” has to be constitutional. And your’s isn’t. Last time, I don’t care. I was asked for compromise, I threw out an idea. The fact that it doesn’t pass constitutional muster couldn’t concern me any less. Thank you SO much for bringing it to my attention repeatedly however. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/123 "2011-01-28T16:13:20Z")
Would it be easier for you if he asked for a compromise that wasn’t unconstitutional? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/124 "2011-01-28T16:24:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A shot of penicillin will take care of that threat Not very familiar with medical science, I see. > [@](#): > > I think we have tortured that analogy long enough. Certainly not. When the opposition is going down in flames, a bit more gasoline just to make sure might be prudent. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/125 "2011-01-28T16:35:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But you go one further than that. You wouldn’t even create any type of standard that a gun owner could follow to avoid liability. Which is why I have long since concluded that the point of the idea is to suppress gun ownership rather than to address legitimate public safety concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/126 "2011-01-28T17:11:06Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Not very familiar with medical science, I see. Yeah, I saw that, and was wondering if suddenly HIV had been cured by simple penicillin and somehow AIDS researchers over the last 4 decades had just overlooked it… ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/127 "2011-01-28T17:56:23Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’m sure you have a greater knowledge of these things than me, so is there a possibility that compromise might have otherwise been replaced by a total loss on the side of gun owners? I mean, even a terrible compromise, followed by further compromises, might be better than no compromise at all. I honestly don’t know whether that’s the situation, though. Death by a thousand papercuts in the name of compromise was the way things had been going until 1996. I just don’t know what is left to comprise with to get anything back that has been lost. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/128 "2011-01-28T21:29:35Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > And **Fear Itself** is a good example of how anti-gun people will never be satisfied. The irony is, I am not anti gun. I support the right to bear arms. But I also support a definition of “responsible gun ownership” that actually requires accountability, and is not just a toothless platitude that is trotted out to deflect debate about gun violence and how to reduce it. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/129 "2011-01-28T22:05:13Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Last time, I don’t care. I was asked for compromise, I threw out an idea. The fact that it doesn’t pass constitutional muster couldn’t concern me any less. Thank you SO much for bringing it to my attention repeatedly however. And if an opponent of gun rights said the compromise was that individuals shouldn’t be allowed to own guns in their own homes, I would sure you wouldn’t mention the Second Amendment as making that impossible. Bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/130 "2011-01-28T23:56:06Z")
> [@villa](#): > > And if an opponent of gun rights said the compromise was that individuals shouldn’t be allowed to own guns in their own homes, I would sure you wouldn’t mention the Second Amendment as making that impossible. > > Bollocks. You did notice that I never argued the constitutionality of my compromise, right? Go get a hard-on for someone else. I don’t want to argue. My idea doesn’t pass constitutional muster, I get it. It was the only thing that I could come up with at the time that someone else, not you, asked. You’re right, I’m wrong. Is that good enough? For fuck’s sake, just drop it. There is another thread going about repealing the 2nd Amendment. Go argue over there. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/131 "2011-01-29T00:06:53Z")
Why would anybody go for your compromise, OP, least of all gun owners? Gun-rights advocates, and by extension gun owners, are winning without compromising. There’s nothing you’re demanding in trade that won’t already happen in the next 10-20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/132 "2011-01-29T00:12:46Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Not really. Yes, really. It comes up time and time again when this discussion comes up on the boards and someone like **Sisu** or myself or one of the other knowledgeable Australians offers a point of view, observation, or fact based on the experiences here. And the response is almost universally “Fuck off, Johnny Foreigner, We Don’t Care”; as evidenced by this post from **godix** : > [@godix](#): > > I’m sure that will be very important the day that most Australians can vote in US elections. Until then, Australians opinions aren’t really all that relevant to US laws. Remember, this is a discussion on a discussion board, not a UN Security Council meeting- yet we’re being told in no uncertain terms that these discussions are apparently For Americans Only. Frankly I thought the boards were better than that, but I’m not surprised. > [@JXJohns\[/quote](#): > > I’m sure that some put up a fight in your homeland at one time but it was too little too late. > > like my AK’s, my AR’s and my semi auto pistols without barrel length or caliber restrictions or registration or licensing. My guns, just like yours were, are not a threat to anyone and don’t need to be locked up at the local club. The fact that people thousands of miles away in another country are content with what they now have as opposed to what they have lost, baffles me. I’m glad that you are happy. A while back I did a post outlining the background and situation surrounding the Australian gun laws; the very edited highlights are that shooters are a minority of a minority in this country (something like 5% of the population are licensed firearms owners) and are politically insignificant; the Government can and does more or less ignore what responsible and law-abiding firearms owners think or want. I wouldn’t say shooters in Australia are “Happy”- just realistic. But, as I noted before, the cultural and social situations in our two countries are very different. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/133 "2011-01-29T00:44:18Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You did notice that I never argued the constitutionality of my compromise, right? Go get a hard-on for someone else. I don’t want to argue. My idea doesn’t pass constitutional muster, I get it. It was the only thing that I could come up with at the time that someone else, not you, asked. > > You’re right, I’m wrong. Is that good enough? For fuck’s sake, just drop it. There is another thread going about repealing the 2nd Amendment. Go argue over there. Wow - this is what it takes for someone to have a hard on for you? OP: What compromise would you accept as a defender of gun rights? You: This is the compromise I would accept Me: Um, such a compromise would violate the law of the United States and is therefore kind of moot. You: I don’t care. It doesn’t matter that it’s in violation of the United States constitution. Me: Kind of a pointless compromise to come up with, seeing as it’s impossible. You: You hate me! Stop persecuting me! Go to another thread! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/134 "2011-01-29T00:46:32Z")
I’m not sure why “unconstitutional” is such a deal breaker. Isn’t it well-enough established that something is constitutional if five out of nine SCOTUS justices _say_ it is? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/135 "2011-01-29T00:50:29Z")
I’m not sure there is a single time in US history you would have had one justice, let alone 5, willing to rule that the federal government had the right to insist that every state permit concealed carry, on conditions determined by the federal government. Maybe the other way round, but there are some things so far beyond the bounds of even conceivable Court decisions that they become, in effect, legal impossibilities. I’d assume having a chance of being held to be, you know, actually legal would be a selling point for an alleged compromise. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/136 "2011-01-29T02:30:07Z")
Dang liberals are never happy. You’ve pretty much won on: Gays in the military. Gay marriage or civil unions Abortion Us conservatives have won on gun rights. Looks like you guys are winning. Obama was right, you guys on the left live to complain. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/137 "2011-01-29T03:41:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The irony is, I am not anti gun. I support the right to bear arms. But I also support a definition of “responsible gun ownership” that actually requires accountability, and is not just a toothless platitude that is trotted out to deflect debate about gun violence and how to reduce it. It’s quite clear that even if a gun is stolen from a safe, you would blame the gun owner and call him irresponsible. Locked in a house and hidden. Blame the gun owner. Like I said, nothing will satisfy the anti-gun folks. I was never ‘pro-gun’. I would have never considered myself that until the ‘Brady Bunch’ and others came along. And posts like yours. There’s my irony back to you. I was just a gun owner. Now that I see how completely illogical and dishonest the anti gun folks are, I have to consider myself ‘pro’ gun. The anti-gun folks are their own worst enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/138 "2011-01-29T03:45:32Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > It’s quite clear that even if a gun is stolen from a safe, you would blame the gun owner and call him irresponsible. > > Locked in a house and hidden. Blame the gun owner. When you figure out how that means I am anti-gun, you get back to us. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/139 "2011-01-29T03:53:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > When you figure out how that means I am anti-gun, you get back to us. You’re way more interested in doing anything to punish gun owners rather than any consideration of reason, or fairness? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127/140 "2011-01-29T03:55:11Z")
The most vociferous gun owners consider anything that imposes accountability to be unfair or unreasonable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-owners-would-you-support-this-compromise/569127.md?page=8)