# Gun registration **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073 "2013-01-13T17:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/141 "2013-01-14T20:40:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Interesting. I have no data to support my position, but I suspect that, if all the conditions I describe were to pass, a lot of people would be more willing to risk an eventual confiscation than to risk any-day prison-time. > > As a related question, do you think you’d be willing to go out of your way to avoid registration on the purchase of new firearms? The only stuff I am buying nowadays are bolt action rifles and revolvers, so I don’t mind going through dealers. I have still made some purchases of used firearms from individuals, but not for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/142 "2013-01-14T20:54:50Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The only stuff I am buying nowadays are bolt action rifles and revolvers, so I don’t mind going through dealers. I have still made some purchases of used firearms from individuals, but not for that reason. I’d assume that any registration requirement would apply to purchase of used firearms, just as it does with cars. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/143 "2013-01-14T21:22:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hypothetically speaking. Obviously I respect your right not to answer, but I hardly see how it’s different than saying you’d take up arms against a tyrant. That would also be a felony. > > Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that 10% of firearms is registered. How is that not better than none? > > In the absence of any reason to disbelieve it, I don’t see what’s wrong with the government’s own statistic. It’s quoted on that LUFA page and suggests that the compliance rate was about 90%. Until I see a reason that my math was bad, I’ll stick with 30% compliance. You said it best, this is besides the point. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/144 "2013-01-14T21:32:41Z")
Upon further research, I really don’t think anyone in Canada can agree to a number of firearms in their country, registered or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/145 "2013-01-14T21:43:49Z")
Without registration, how do we know if the guy who was just involuntarily committed has any firearms he will need to surrender? ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/146 "2013-01-14T22:03:13Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Upon further research, I really don’t think anyone in Canada can agree to a number of firearms in their country, registered or otherwise. also fyi handguns have been registered since 1934. the discontinued registration was for long guns (rifles and shotguns). > **[Canadian Firearms Registry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Firearms_Registry)** > > The Canadian Firearms Registry (French: Registre canadien des armes à feu) is the gun registry of Canada, requiring the registration of all restricted and prohibited firearms in the country. It is managed by the Canadian Firearms Program of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) as part of the RCMP's responsibilities under the Firearms Act. > The registry was introduced by the Liberal government of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien in 1993 and implemented by successive justice ministers Allan Rock ... ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/147 "2013-01-14T22:20:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Without registration, how do we know if the guy who was just involuntarily committed has any firearms he will need to surrender? I don’t think it’s too likely that they’d let somebody who was just involuntarily committed out so that he could go home and pick up all his guns, and bring them to the police station. Rather than surrendering, it might be prudent to go straight to confiscating at that point. So, there’d need to be (laws to back this up/much handwaving/cold dead fingers) a warrant and detailed search. I don’t find that too likely in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/148 "2013-01-15T01:33:25Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > John Q. Public buys a gun at a federally licensed gun dealer. He goes through the background check, required training, licensing, waiting period, registration, and jumps through any other hoops the anti-gunners have wet dreams about. > > Some time later the gun is stolen during a burglary. The burgalar trades the gun on the street for drugs. Eventually the gun is used in a homicide by a gang member. The killer then turns the gun into a “gun buy back” program, gets $50 and the gun is melted down. > > Please explain how any of those regulations prevented a gun related crime. Gotcha ya thread. sweet. So, I guess, this means we have to go to a ban on all firearms to stop your scenario. I mean if you feel real strongly on your scenario, sure I’d be willing to consider a blanket ban on all firearms, is this your question? If I misunderstood, then howsabout you explaining how universal background checks and registration when buying new or used firearms will result in zero improvement over the current situation? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/149 "2013-01-15T02:47:50Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I just read what you all say, read what questions you will answer, and what ones some of you won’t answer. It really does not take a genius to figure it out. I’d be happy to have a similar discussion with you. > > Are there any guns you think should be outlawed? Rifles, shotguns, pistols, or subsets of each? **Elucidator** , are you going to answer my question or are you just another gun grabber with something to hide? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/150 "2013-01-15T03:03:13Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > **Elucidator** , are you going to answer my question or are you just another gun grabber with something to hide? Ahem: > [@Marley23](#): > > The Pit is a couple of forums down. Keep it GD-appropriate. If you have a question, ask it without the personal sniping. This thread has already reached its quota. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/151 "2013-01-15T03:26:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ahem: > If you have a question, ask it without the personal sniping. This thread has already reached its quota. Pardon me, I thought “gun-grabber” was descriptive rather than an insult. I still hope Elucidator will answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/152 "2013-01-15T04:01:32Z")
Another article on how criminals get guns. [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html) A few highlights (quoted from above link): Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it. ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation’s 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. > [@article](#): > > What’s needed, according to Wachtel, is better monitoring of the activities of legally licensed gun dealers. This means examining FFL paperwork to see where their guns are coming from, and making sure that those guns are being sold legally. But he says, “Let’s be honest. If someone wants a gun, it’s obvious the person will not have difficulty buying a gun, either legally or through the extensive United States black market.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/153 "2013-01-15T11:19:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I don’t think it’s too likely that they’d let somebody who was just involuntarily committed out so that he could go home and pick up all his guns, and bring them to the police station. > > Rather than surrendering, it might be prudent to go straight to confiscating at that point. So, there’d need to be (laws to back this up/much handwaving/cold dead fingers) a warrant and detailed search. > > I don’t find that too likely in the near future. Lomg term institutionalization is rare these days, so he is going to be released at some point. Are you suggesting that it is better to do a full house/property search under a warrant for every person who has a firearm owning disqualification on the chance that they own one, rather than have a registration system? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/154 "2013-01-15T21:36:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Lomg term institutionalization is rare these days, so he is going to be released at some point. > > Are you suggesting that it is better to do a full house/property search under a warrant for every person who has a firearm owning disqualification on the chance that they own one, rather than have a registration system? No; your question was > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > **Without registration,** how do we know if the guy who was just involuntarily committed has any firearms he will need to surrender? That’s my answer: _if we don’t have registration,_ once someone is judged crazy we have the choices of (a) expect him to bring his guns in once he’s released, (b) let him keep whatever guns he has, or (c) go get them while he’s locked up. I vote (c), but then again, I am not a cop, crazy person or gun owner, so I don’t necessarily have a dog in this fight. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/155 "2013-01-17T03:11:22Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > How do you track guns which don’t have serial numbers? (That’s any gun made before 1968; there are a lot of them out there.) > > How do you enforce the storage requirement laws? Or do you just charge owners if their weapon is misused and they can’t show they were storing it properly? It works quite well in Aus. The owner needs to be licensed. To get a licence you need to do a background check and some mandatory safety training. Just like getting a licence to drive a car Weapons are registered (just like a car is). If it doesn’t have a serial number, what is registered is make, model etc and you may engrave an ID number on part of the barrel in lieu of a serial number. A database is maintained of who owns what. Police have the right to come around unannounced and view your storage area and ensure that your registered weapons are stored properly. They don’t search your house for pot. What these things do is ensure that the movement of weapons is controlled and restricts the capacity of crooks to access them. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/156 "2013-01-17T03:30:00Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > No; your question was > > That’s my answer: _if we don’t have registration,_ once someone is judged crazy we have the choices of (a) expect him to bring his guns in once he’s released, (b) let him keep whatever guns he has, or (c) go get them while he’s locked up. > > I vote (c), but then again, I am not a cop, crazy person or gun owner, so I don’t necessarily have a dog in this fight. I’m not following… How will you know to do (c)? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/157 "2013-01-17T04:28:18Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > A database is maintained of who owns what. Police have the right to come around unannounced and view your storage area and ensure that your registered weapons are stored properly. That won’t fly in the US. Unannounced police searches of private residences would absolutely not be tolerated. A registration database would be problematic to implement as well (largely because in the past a few places like Chicago that established such databases used them to subsequently confiscate legally registered guns). ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/158 "2013-01-17T04:42:16Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > That won’t fly in the US. Unannounced police searches of private residences would absolutely not be tolerated. A registration database would be problematic to implement as well (largely because in the past a few places like Chicago that established such databases used them to subsequently confiscate legally registered guns). The concept doesn’t exactly fill me with joy either, but it’s not really a big deal. They come around to your house with a list of your guns and ask you to show them where they are. You take them to the gun safe, unlock it, show them the guns, they tick them off and leave. They can’t search your house without a warrant or probable cause. If you can’t produce the guns that are in your name, or they aren’t properly secured, you’re in the shit. With the last part, that is a worry if the government is likely to make one of your legally purchased guns suddenly illegal to own. But they can always pass laws making things illegal that used to be legal so you go with it. Also, if you go and get yourself arrested for assault or have a mental breakdown, they may decide that it’s not in the public interest for you to keep the guns, and I tend to agree with that logic. It’s a good way of making sure that the person who purchased the guns actually has them, and has them securely. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/159 "2013-01-17T16:56:06Z")
Just to keep my question clear- without registration, how will we know when someone has weapons that we all agree they should not when their disqualification occurs after their acquisition of firearms? **Ethilrist** , when, or how, will you know when you need to engage in activity c? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073/160 "2013-01-18T20:40:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Just to keep my question clear- without registration, how will we know when someone has weapons that we all agree they should not when their disqualification occurs after their acquisition of firearms? > > **Ethilrist** , when, or how, will you know when you need to engage in activity c? Sorry, Wednesday & Thursday is my weekend, and I don’t have internet access at home. Short answer: We’ll (probably) know they have guns by going into their homes and searching for them. Longer answer, with much handwaving: IF we’re going to pass laws saying short-term institutionalized people don’t get to have guns waiting for them when they get home, and IF we’re going to expand the powers of the police in limiting access to guns for crazy people and IF we don’t have registration, then whenever anyone is deemed crazy enough that he doesn’t get to own guns any more, a warrant will need to be issued to search that person’s home and confiscate all the guns he shouldn’t have any more. As I’ve said in other threads about the black&white futures of gun registration/licensing/confiscation, I don’t necessarily APPROVE of this, but it’s the only way I can see it working. An even more objectionable way of dealing with it is that, once someone is deemed unworthy of gun ownership, the warrant gets issued and his home is searched whether he has previously registered a gun or not. That’s not gonna fly any time real soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-registration/647073.md?page=9)