The only stuff I am buying nowadays are bolt action rifles and revolvers, so I don’t mind going through dealers. I have still made some purchases of used firearms from individuals, but not for that reason.
I’d assume that any registration requirement would apply to purchase of used firearms, just as it does with cars.
Until I see a reason that my math was bad, I’ll stick with 30% compliance. You said it best, this is besides the point.
Upon further research, I really don’t think anyone in Canada can agree to a number of firearms in their country, registered or otherwise.
Without registration, how do we know if the guy who was just involuntarily committed has any firearms he will need to surrender?
also fyi handguns have been registered since 1934. the discontinued registration was for long guns (rifles and shotguns).
I don’t think it’s too likely that they’d let somebody who was just involuntarily committed out so that he could go home and pick up all his guns, and bring them to the police station.
Rather than surrendering, it might be prudent to go straight to confiscating at that point. So, there’d need to be (laws to back this up/much handwaving/cold dead fingers) a warrant and detailed search.
I don’t find that too likely in the near future.
Gotcha ya thread. sweet. So, I guess, this means we have to go to a ban on all firearms to stop your scenario. I mean if you feel real strongly on your scenario, sure I’d be willing to consider a blanket ban on all firearms, is this your question?
If I misunderstood, then howsabout you explaining how universal background checks and registration when buying new or used firearms will result in zero improvement over the current situation?
Elucidator, are you going to answer my question or are you just another gun grabber with something to hide?
Ahem:
If you have a question, ask it without the personal sniping. This thread has already reached its quota.
Pardon me, I thought “gun-grabber” was descriptive rather than an insult. I still hope Elucidator will answer my question.
Another article on how criminals get guns. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
A few highlights (quoted from above link):
Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes
Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it.
ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation’s 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.
Lomg term institutionalization is rare these days, so he is going to be released at some point.
Are you suggesting that it is better to do a full house/property search under a warrant for every person who has a firearm owning disqualification on the chance that they own one, rather than have a registration system?
No; your question was
That’s my answer: if we don’t have registration, once someone is judged crazy we have the choices of (a) expect him to bring his guns in once he’s released, (b) let him keep whatever guns he has, or (c) go get them while he’s locked up.
I vote (c), but then again, I am not a cop, crazy person or gun owner, so I don’t necessarily have a dog in this fight.
It works quite well in Aus.
The owner needs to be licensed. To get a licence you need to do a background check and some mandatory safety training. Just like getting a licence to drive a car
Weapons are registered (just like a car is). If it doesn’t have a serial number, what is registered is make, model etc and you may engrave an ID number on part of the barrel in lieu of a serial number.
A database is maintained of who owns what. Police have the right to come around unannounced and view your storage area and ensure that your registered weapons are stored properly. They don’t search your house for pot.
What these things do is ensure that the movement of weapons is controlled and restricts the capacity of crooks to access them.
I’m not following… How will you know to do (c)?
That won’t fly in the US. Unannounced police searches of private residences would absolutely not be tolerated. A registration database would be problematic to implement as well (largely because in the past a few places like Chicago that established such databases used them to subsequently confiscate legally registered guns).
The concept doesn’t exactly fill me with joy either, but it’s not really a big deal. They come around to your house with a list of your guns and ask you to show them where they are. You take them to the gun safe, unlock it, show them the guns, they tick them off and leave. They can’t search your house without a warrant or probable cause. If you can’t produce the guns that are in your name, or they aren’t properly secured, you’re in the shit.
With the last part, that is a worry if the government is likely to make one of your legally purchased guns suddenly illegal to own. But they can always pass laws making things illegal that used to be legal so you go with it.
Also, if you go and get yourself arrested for assault or have a mental breakdown, they may decide that it’s not in the public interest for you to keep the guns, and I tend to agree with that logic.
It’s a good way of making sure that the person who purchased the guns actually has them, and has them securely.
Just to keep my question clear- without registration, how will we know when someone has weapons that we all agree they should not when their disqualification occurs after their acquisition of firearms?
Ethilrist, when, or how, will you know when you need to engage in activity c?
Sorry, Wednesday & Thursday is my weekend, and I don’t have internet access at home.
Short answer: We’ll (probably) know they have guns by going into their homes and searching for them.
Longer answer, with much handwaving: IF we’re going to pass laws saying short-term institutionalized people don’t get to have guns waiting for them when they get home, and IF we’re going to expand the powers of the police in limiting access to guns for crazy people and IF we don’t have registration, then whenever anyone is deemed crazy enough that he doesn’t get to own guns any more, a warrant will need to be issued to search that person’s home and confiscate all the guns he shouldn’t have any more.
As I’ve said in other threads about the black&white futures of gun registration/licensing/confiscation, I don’t necessarily APPROVE of this, but it’s the only way I can see it working.
An even more objectionable way of dealing with it is that, once someone is deemed unworthy of gun ownership, the warrant gets issued and his home is searched whether he has previously registered a gun or not. That’s not gonna fly any time real soon.