# Gun Safety Instructor Accidentally Kills Himself Cleaning Gun **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 29, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183 "2013-06-29T03:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/1 "2013-06-29T03:39:00Z")
" Orser, 41, a former Marine Corps reservist whose home has a full-sized British amphibious tank in the backyard, was found in the house by his wife with a fatal shotgun wound in the chest about 11:35 p.m., Carmel police Chief Michael Johnson said. Orser shot himself in the chest while cleaning weapons for a gun event, Johnson said… “He is a survivalist. He deals with guns, he goes to gun shows,” Johnson said of Orser. “He supposedly was a firearms expert and a safety instructor also.” > **[N.Y. man's death leads police to arsenal](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/28/ny-mans-death-leads-police-to-arsenal/2474477/)** > > The man had more than 100 firearms in his house and a full-sized tank in the backyard. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/2 "2013-06-29T03:41:18Z")
WAG wife shot him I watch too many police dramas ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/3 "2013-06-29T04:01:44Z")
That would be my first thought. A shotgun wound to the chest is kinda hard to self-inflict. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/4 "2013-06-29T13:56:35Z")
From the lead-in on the OP, I was assuming he’d managed to shoot himself with the tank. Sounds like that might not be too much more difficult than with the shotgun. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/5 "2013-06-29T14:50:44Z")
Reminds me of the Newcastle United fan found with eighteen stab wounds in the back in Sunderland. Sunderland police said that it was the worst case of suicide they’d ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/6 "2013-06-29T15:01:47Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Reminds me of the Newcastle United fan found with eighteen stab wounds in the back in Sunderland. Sunderland police said that it was the worst case of suicide they’d ever seen. Suicide, huh? Must’ve caught himself by surprise. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/7 "2013-06-29T15:29:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That would be my first thought. A shotgun wound to the chest is kinda hard to self-inflict. I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking that way. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/8 "2013-06-29T15:33:57Z")
No true gun expert could ever accidentally shoot themselves. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/9 "2013-06-29T15:44:33Z")
Safety instructor? Either he violated two of the four basic rules of gun safety or it wasn’t self-inflicted. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/10 "2013-06-29T17:17:36Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Safety instructor? Either he violated two of the four basic rules of gun safety or it wasn’t self-inflicted. Or, he wanted to commit suicide, but made it look accidental so as to minimize the upset to his family and/or to allow them to collect on the insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/11 "2013-06-29T18:02:24Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Safety instructor? Either he violated two of the four basic rules of gun safety or it wasn’t self-inflicted. From what read the safety instructor angle was there for drama. No actual info on that front. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/12 "2013-06-29T19:32:52Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > WAG wife shot him > I watch too many police dramas Mr. Furious: Seems there was a little controversy there regarding your father’s death. Baby Bowler: Yes, the police said he fell down an elevator shaft. Onto some bullets. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/13 "2013-06-29T20:03:18Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Suicide, huh? Must’ve caught himself by surprise. I think he knew his attacker-there was no sign of struggle, and it didn’t look as if he attempted to flee. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/14 "2013-06-29T20:39:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think he knew his attacker-there was no sign of struggle, and it didn’t look as if he attempted to flee. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/IQRiMQwMOsI/hqdefault.jpg "Loaded Weapon 1 1993 - Clip - How to process a crime scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQRiMQwMOsI) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/15 "2013-06-30T04:57:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That would be my first thought. A shotgun wound to the chest is kinda hard to self-inflict. It’s like committing suicide by shooting yourself in the head 3 times. There is more to this story than meets the news. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/16 "2013-06-30T06:45:05Z")
Is there some functional reason guns have to be cleaned seemingly nonstop, or is it just to make them look pretty? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/17 "2013-06-30T07:01:07Z")
I rarely actually believe any of these stories. You have to be really, really, Darwin-award level dumb for this shit to happen. If you’re someone who routinely practices gun safety, it’s automatic. These stories just don’t make sense the vast majority of the time. I mean strictly from a plausibility perspective. Okay, you’re cleaning a gun. What’s the first thing you do? Take out the magazine, open up the action. Now the gun is unloaded. How are you even going to clean the gun if it’s in a state where it’s ready to fire? But let’s say you fuck that up somehow and you have a round in the chamber, and you’re cleaning some part of the gun that doesn’t involve… anything internal. You’re apparently just polishing the outside of the gun. Okay. Why do you need to point the gun at yourself to do this? Anyone who has any sense of gun safety at all would never point a gun, even if they felt they were sure it was loaded, at themselves or others. There’s just no reason to do that. So why would you? But let’s say you’re an idiot and somehow you’re cleaning the gun in a way that doesn’t involve anything internal, and you’ve decided to hold the gun in such a way that it’s pointing at you. Okay, now why do you need to pull the trigger? What part of cleaning the gun involves pulling the trigger? Maybe there’s a remote chance that you’re trying to get some gunk out of the firing group so you need the trigger group to be in the forward position. Except it’s impossible to be that deep into the internal workings of a gun without being able to plainly see that it’s still loaded, and in fact in most or all guns you’d have to remove part of the gun necessary to firing to get to that stage of cleaning. Now, I can buy “I thought it was unloaded and pointed it at my friend and pulled the trigger as a joke”, that’s a plausible way to be a complete moron. But I can’t buy people who are legitimately cleaning their guns that somehow shoot themselves. A gun safety instructor doing it? No way. So I always take these “shot himself accidentally while cleaning a gun” stories to mean “the family really doesn’t want to let it be known that it’s a suicide” or possibly in a few cases a murder. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/18 "2013-06-30T10:20:11Z")
Well, there’s also the difference between cleaning the gun and _cleaning the gun_. You can clean a gun by taking a soft cloth and wiping it down so it looks all purty, or you can disassemble it to fully clean and lubricate the moving parts as part of a proper maintenance protocol. You know the difference, the press won’t make any distinction. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/19 "2013-06-30T10:22:14Z")
I guess, but managing to somehow point it at yourself and then pull the trigger while wiping it down is a fairly unlikely set of random actions, especially for a long gun. Still strikes me as being a convenient lie to cover for suicide or murder more often than someone actually doing that. Certainly not in the case of the thread a gun safety instructor with a long gun. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183/20 "2013-06-30T10:37:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But let’s say you fuck that up somehow and you have a round in the chamber, and you’re cleaning some part of the gun that doesn’t involve… anything internal. You’re apparently just polishing the outside of the gun. Okay. Why do you need to point the gun at yourself to do this? Anyone who has any sense of gun safety at all would never point a gun, even if they felt they were sure it was loaded, at themselves or others. There’s just no reason to do that. So why would you? > > But let’s say you’re an idiot and somehow you’re cleaning the gun in a way that doesn’t involve anything internal, and you’ve decided to hold the gun in such a way that it’s pointing at you. Okay, now why do you need to pull the trigger? He probably wasn’t pointing it at himself or pulled the trigger. More likely is that it slipped from his grip while he was polishing it and it landed in such a way that it went off. Fine by me. One irresponsible gun nut down. How many more to go? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-safety-instructor-accidentally-kills-himself-cleaning-gun/662183.md?page=2)