# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/181 "2009-10-10T23:21:48Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Golly, your reasoning is irrefutable. It doesn’t matter if guns are around or not. If I’m going to kill somebody, and I have no gun, I’ll just do it with my screwdriver! > > Now I \*finally \*understand why Scotland’s haggis-homicide rate is so much higher than ours. That’s why the Swiss require everyone to own a rifle. Too many people were killing each other with wheels of cheese and they didn’t have anything left to export. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/182 "2009-10-10T23:28:14Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I still think **chique** is an ass for “giggling” about her orphaned kids. I might have missed it, but I don’t think **chique** is giggling about her orphaned kids. I think he’s giggling at the irony of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/183 "2009-10-10T23:32:54Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I’m only speculating, but odds are that her husband shared her feelings about guns, but apparently was not mentally capable of making a good decision about using his. That’s what makes it scary that she wore the gun to the game in the first place. It doesn’t mean she was dangerous, but it does show that not everyone is capable of proper gun usage. Your second sentence is a nonsequitur. Other people are dangerous, which makes her scary? A hell of a lot of people are shitty drivers and shouldn’t be allowed near anything with more power than a child’s toy scooter, that doesn’t mean that it should be objectively scary that some people drive large trucks on neighborhood streets. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/184 "2009-10-11T00:01:53Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I might have missed it, but I don’t think **chique** is giggling about her orphaned kids. Nonono! The poor, homeless, shoeless, bedraggled, scabby-kineed, starving orphans are the best part! I’d type more but you’ll have to pardon me - I’m going to go knock off some little old ladies now. Starting with gramma. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/185 "2009-10-11T00:06:03Z")
I am offended by the misuse of the term “irony.” Woman: “People who want to commit a crime would not obey gun laws anyway. Why disarm only law abiding people? I am fully aware that guns are extremely dangerous in the hands of criminals, and that I am vulnerable to this, but disarming myself makes me no safer. I might be killed by a criminal with a gun, but he would not have obeyed gun laws anyway.” Idiots: “Haha! You just got murdered, bitch! Too bad your kids didn’t get killed too! Giggle.” ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/186 "2009-10-11T00:08:33Z")
> [@chique](#): > > For my next OP, I shall delineate how I laughed maniacally while fucking a sheep with a strap-on after I killed my mother. I’m struggling to see the irony, even if it is your mother’s strap-on, your mother laughed maniacally, or hell, even if the sheep is your mother. Not that it couldn’t be all three. “Pinky, are you thinking what I’m thinking?” “I think so, Brain, but what is a sheep doing with a strap-on?” ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/187 "2009-10-11T01:12:51Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > I am offended by the misuse of the term “irony.” > Woman: “People who want to commit a crime would not obey gun laws anyway. Why disarm only law abiding people? I am fully aware that guns are extremely dangerous in the hands of criminals, and that I am vulnerable to this, but disarming myself makes me no safer. I might be killed by a criminal with a gun, but he would not have obeyed gun laws anyway.” > > Idiots: “Haha! You just got murdered, bitch! Too bad your kids didn’t get killed too! Giggle.” The ironic part is that you’re offended by shit _you made up!_ ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/188 "2009-10-11T01:48:38Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Yep. And the more cars per capita, the more car deaths per capita. Ditto crowbars, screwdrivers, and harpoons. If you’re going to kill someone, you’re a lot more likely to do it with something that is readily at hand, right? Yup, and on average, a gun is a lot more efficient at murder than a car, a knife, or a haggis, and a gun is not needed for anything other than killing, whereas a car, a knife and a haggis are. Pretty hard to get to work and for goods to be transported without a car. Pretty hard to have dinner on turkey day (it is Thanksgiving weekend here this weekend) without a knife. Pretty hard to have sex without a haggis. On a societal cost benefit basis, personal handguns are way off on the cost side, whereas vehicles, kitchen knives and haggis are far over on the benefit side. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/189 "2009-10-11T01:50:12Z")
> [@chique](#): > > I’d type more but you’ll have to pardon me - I’m going to go knock off some little old ladies now. Starting with gramma. Let’s not exaggerate here. You aren’t going to hell (it doesn’t exist) and you aren’t “special” for giggling at a husband murdering his wife. You’re just a garden variety, ugly human being. No big deal. The only comeuppance you might get would be people giggling at you and your family if you get stabbed or beaten to death. But you wouldn’t be around to watch people wiping away tears of mirth at your murder, so you have nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/190 "2009-10-11T01:50:59Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Your second sentence is a nonsequitur. Other people are dangerous, which makes her scary? A hell of a lot of people are shitty drivers and shouldn’t be allowed near anything with more power than a child’s toy scooter, that doesn’t mean that it should be objectively scary that some people drive large trucks on neighborhood streets. My point was that it doesn’t appear to have been a household of mentally stable, responsible gun owners. The husband obviously had problems. The woman didn’t show very good judgment, legal or not, by her actions at the soccer game. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/191 "2009-10-11T03:30:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Yup, and on average, a gun is a lot more efficient at murder than a car, a knife, or a haggis, and a gun is not needed for anything other than killing, whereas a car, a knife and a haggis are. My point is that the statistic (well, trend) you stated is meaningless. Of _course_ there are more gun-related deaths when more people have guns. Just like more people trip over sleeping cats if more people have sleeping cats to trip over. Showing that more guns=more gun-related deaths does NOT show that more guns=more deaths overall. The county I live in has 3 dwellings per square mile. We have wolves, coyotes, bobcats, mountain lions, black bears, grizzlies, red foxes, and all kinds of other critters that like to eat other critters. When I had my ranch, I kept guns nearby. I may not have goats & cattle anymore–I sold the cattle and donated the goats to the SDMB Initiation Team ™–but I kept the guns. To answer the questions that will probably pop up: Yes, I’m properly trained. Yes, I have a concealed carry permit. No, I don’t pack heat to my kids’ games. Even if I wanted to, a concealed carry permit doesn’t let you carry a weapon on school grounds in Montana. Interestingly, though, when I gave a talk about Scottish history at the local high school, I did wear a claymore, a dirk, and a sgian dubh with my kilt. I got permission, but if felt kind of funny packing a 5-foot sword on a campus where kids get suspended for pocket knives. > [@Muffin](#): > > Pretty hard to have sex without a haggis. Hmmm. Too bad you weren’t around when I was single. Although if I remember correctly, you’re the wrong gender anyway. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/192 "2009-10-11T03:38:44Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > My point is that the statistic (well, trend) you stated is meaningless. Of _course_ there are more gun-related deaths when more people have guns. Just like more people trip over sleeping cats if more people have sleeping cats to trip over. > > Showing that more guns=more gun-related deaths does NOT show that more guns=more deaths overall. Have a look at that last cite I posted – the homicide rate in the USA is extremely high when compared to Canada. [Gun violence - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence) As you can see from the stats, the great difference is not in the non-gun homicide rate, but instead is in the gun homicide rate, so yes, more guns increase the homicide rate, rather than just change the method of killing without increasing the homicide rate. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/193 "2009-10-11T03:59:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Have a look at that last cite I posted – the homicide rate in the USA is extremely high when compared to Canada. [Gun violence - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence) > > As you can see from the stats, the great difference is not in the non-gun homicide rate, but instead is in the gun homicide rate, so yes, more guns increase the homicide rate, rather than just change the method of killing without increasing the homicide rate. I know this is the Pit and not GD, but Wikipedia really isn’t the best source to be citing. How do I know you weren’t the original source of that data? And in any case, there are hundreds or thousands of different variables. Having two things that are higher in one country than another does not imply that one of those things causes the other. Not even in that one case, much less across the board. You pick a study that supports one position in the gun debate, and I can probably find one that says the opposite. People’s reactions to guns are visceral, with layers of rationalizing piled on top. When folks discovered that the Columbine shooters originally intended to blow up the school with bombs made from propane tanks, we didn’t see a big crusade to outlaw propane tanks, but people went nuts about banning guns. I don’t like the idea of taking away people’s rights and freedoms based on other people’s irrational fears. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/194 "2009-10-11T04:10:13Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I know this is the Pit and not GD, but Wikipedia really isn’t the best source to be citing. How do I know you weren’t the original source of that data? On the internet, nobody knows that you are a dog. Prove to me that you are not a dog. If you had bothered to read my cite the first time I posted it, I would not have to have posted it a second time. If you had bothered to read my post the second time I posted it, you would have noted that the stats were from, and directly linked to, the Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000. [http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh\_survey/7sc.pdf](http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf) BTW, as posted on another message board, I am a cat. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/195 "2009-10-11T04:15:43Z")
Funny you should say that, because just yesterday I walked into a Chuck E. Cheese with a propane tank—which I purchased _legally_, as is my legal right as an adult citizen of the United States of America— duct-taped to my chest, while holding a box of _100% legal strike-anywhere matches_, and you would not believe the overreaction I got from all the Constitutional illiterates. “I’m doing this for _all of you_,” I shouted, but was drowned out by the mayhem of screaming children and crescendo of approaching sirens. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/196 "2009-10-11T04:25:40Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > I’m struggling to see the irony… Considering how well irony has gone over up to this point, do you really think I’m about to introduce even _more_ to this thread? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/197 "2009-10-11T04:41:55Z")
Shut up about that and tell us about the sheep. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/198 "2009-10-11T05:09:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Right, the moral of the story is that only gun-toting moms who support gun rights get shot by their husbands. The rest of us can sleep smugly and safely in our beds. > > Fucking anti-gun nuts on this board are batshit insane. NO, the moral of the story is that having a gun does not make you any safer. But having a gun in the house greatly increases the chances that you will be shot by someone else in the house, either intentionally or accidentally. She just happened to become one more example that proves this rule. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/199 "2009-10-11T05:23:42Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Nonono! The poor, homeless, shoeless, bedraggled, scabby-kineed, starving orphans are the best part! Well. . .then, I’ll have to side with some of the others here. What the heck is wrong with you??!!! You moral degenerate. You left that part out of your OP. That’s just unforgivable. 😛 And double bad on you for not knowing that this would turn into a gun rights thread. Because every thread that has a gun in it must necessarily be one of those. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/200 "2009-10-11T06:04:53Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Shut up about that and tell us about the sheep. Oddly enough, it squealed like a pig. > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > And double bad on you for not knowing that this would turn into a gun rights thread. Because every thread that has a gun in it must necessarily be one of those. 😉 _hangs head in shame_ I feel really, really bad about that. Apologies. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=11)