# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/341 "2009-10-14T00:05:23Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Let me turn my assertion into a question, then: Do you believe that studies of guns in urban areas are applicable highly rural areas (e.g., my county of 9,800 people)? I don’t know. We can speculate as to why they would or would not be. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/342 "2009-10-14T00:09:03Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > … > > I agree that the extreme pro-gun people are every bit as annoying as the extreme anti-gun people. Well, good…that’s really all I really wanted to point out…but it’s a heated issue, and sometimes the heat just spills over…I really think that the NRA or whomever should do some image softening if they actually want the mainstream to not see them as hostile bloodlust Cheneys. But I get the impression that they’d prefer to continue to use their thuglike strongarming and whine about being an oppressed minority, since that makes them more money. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/343 "2009-10-14T00:22:09Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Congratulations, you just won the thread. Twice in one thread? This is so unexpected! I’ve so many people to thank… ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/344 "2009-10-14T00:44:39Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > No. I think you were an asshole in a GQ thread. It had little to do with the substance of your _opinion_, but with the fact that you were odiously expressing an _opinion_ in General Questions, a forum for fact-based questions and answers. > > I was an asshole in GQ a little while back, and got (appropriately) smacked by the Mods. But at least I had the excuse that I was drunk. > > You were just a flaming asshole, in the wrong forum. > > Now you’re just a flaming asshole. > > Oh, and lest I forget… > _ **:mad:BOOGA!:pBOOGA!:mad:BOOGA!😛 :mad:GUNS!:pGUNS!:mad:GUNS!😛** _ Who needs a gun when you got a conscience and balls… not to mention, courage of conviction? You, you’re just another asshole, coward, bully with a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/345 "2009-10-14T00:48:53Z")
Booga Booga Booga! The world is too scary for me! ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/346 "2009-10-14T03:06:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So you do need me to walk you through it. Okay. > > One issue that we’ve been talking about is whether or not the presence of a gun in the household is associated in one way or another with one’s risk for homicide or suicide. A number of studies indicate that it is positively related with both. This is relevant to the incident at hand because it is an example of someone with a gun in the house being a victim of a homicide. I originally said that this incident is not an “argument” but it is an example. > > A completely separate question is whether one can observe any changes before or after a particular gun law goes into effect, or compare different jurisdictions to draw any conclusions about whether differing gun laws are associated with differing rates of gun violence. The report you keep citing considers that question. > > Furthermore, researchers do publish more than one paper. They may be on different topics, or different aspects of the same topic. The Kellermann paper in the list you noted is an example of this. > > I know it’s unfair, but one might come away from this discussion with serious concerns about gun advocates’ ability to comprehend even the most basic elements of how science is conducted. And one might come away from the same discussion impressed with your ability to cherry pick data that doesn’t support your argument ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/347 "2009-10-14T03:12:05Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Who needs a gun when you got a conscience and balls… not to mention, courage of conviction? > > You, you’re just another asshole, coward, bully with a gun. I don’t need a firearm to make a spineless shit like you piss yourself for a cowardly soul; God gave me two guns at the end of my arms to take out trash-talking fuckknuckles like you. Come out from behind the safety of an internet connection, name the time and place fuckstick, and I’ll feed your your own words, one tooth at a time. PM me with the details; I’ve got vacation time and money to burn. You and me, no cops, last man standing. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/348 "2009-10-14T03:28:45Z")
You know what? Fuck that shit. You wouldn’t be worth the time and effort. You know why? You were unmanned by nothing more than a post in GQ, by a mere legal question with a factual answer. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/349 "2009-10-14T03:28:53Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I don’t need a firearm to make a spineless shit like you piss yourself for a cowardly soul; God gave me two guns at the end of my arms to take out trash-talking fuckknuckles like you. > > Come out from behind the safety of an internet connection, name the time and place fuckstick, and I’ll feed your your own words, one tooth at a time. > > PM me with the details; I’ve got vacation time and money to burn. You and me, no cops, last man standing. Official warning: Don’t threaten other posters. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/350 "2009-10-14T04:46:09Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > You were unmanned by nothing more than a post in GQ, by a mere legal question with a factual answer. Yea, but I saw your monkey ass…😛 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/351 "2009-10-14T04:55:51Z")
Wow. Thanks **ExTank** for demonstrating the cool, calm behavior that will make everyone see why you should be allowed to possess a device made for the express purpose of killing someone you disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/352 "2009-10-14T05:00:55Z")
Wow, now **that** was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/353 "2009-10-14T05:24:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Wow. Thanks **ExTank** for demonstrating the cool, calm behavior that will make everyone see why you should be allowed to possess a device made for the express purpose of killing someone you disagree with. Here’s the thing: you already have your mind made up. And that’s fine, everybody is allowed their opinion. But here’s the thing…this thread was created to “hoist us on our own petard”, as it were. There was never any interest in rational discussion, it was intended to malign gun owners from the very beginning. Is it any wonder that after page after page of insults a gun owner would finally lose their cool? If you want to do this rationally I would be happy to engage you in GD. Of course, that thread will go straight to hell too, but maybe, just maybe, it will provide a forum for you to air your grievances and for us gun owners to explain a few things before it turns into a trainwreck. This was a trainwreck from the moment it was conceived. Perhaps we can dispense with the rhetoric for a change and have a reasonable conversation for once? I don’t think I’m asking too much, am I? ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/354 "2009-10-14T05:28:19Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > But here’s the thing…this thread was created to “hoist us on our own petard”, as it were. Was not! ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/355 "2009-10-14T05:29:54Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Was not! So much for that. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/356 "2009-10-14T05:30:36Z")
forget it ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/357 "2009-10-14T05:43:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > But here’s the thing…this thread was created to “hoist us on our own petard”, as it were. There was never any interest in rational discussion, it was intended to malign gun owners from the very beginning. Is it any wonder that after page after page of insults a gun owner would finally lose their cool? There is losing your cool, and then there is going off with fantasies of actual physical violence against another person. Unacceptable. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > If you want to do this rationally I would be happy to engage you in GD. Of course, that thread will go straight to hell too, but maybe, just maybe, it will provide a forum for you to air your grievances and for us gun owners to explain a few things before it turns into a trainwreck. This was a trainwreck from the moment it was conceived. Perhaps we can dispense with the rhetoric for a change and have a reasonable conversation for once? I don’t think I’m asking too much, am I? My mind is not made up, and I certainly recognize nuance in positions. I suspect (based on your posting history) that if you and I were to have a GD discussion, it would be interesting, rational and fruitful. I would listen to you, and you would not threaten me. Sadly, some gun owners are not like you. ---
**Author:** ![\_cc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e19b73/32.png) [@\_cc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_cc)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/358 "2009-10-14T07:36:33Z")
Why not giggle? These people are well outside my monkey-sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/359 "2009-10-14T13:04:22Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I don’t need a firearm to make a spineless shit like you piss yourself for a cowardly soul; God gave me two guns at the end of my arms to take out trash-talking fuckknuckles like you. > > Come out from behind the safety of an internet connection, name the time and place fuckstick, and I’ll feed your your own words, one tooth at a time. > > PM me with the details; I’ve got vacation time and money to burn. You and me, no cops, last man standing. Hotheads + guns = big problems that need to be controlled. Since we can’t control hotheads, we need to control hotheads’ access to guns. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/360 "2009-10-14T13:09:51Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > And one might come away from the same discussion impressed with your ability to cherry pick data that doesn’t support your argument At this point, I’m not sure which of your own words you actually understand. I can assure you that I haven’t cherry picked anything. If you are in some fashion still referring to the report you’ve linked to, I’m quite content to agree that studies of whether gun laws are associated with changes in levels of gun crimes within a community have been inconclusive. (Why you keep shouting to the rooftops about equivocal findings, I don’t know.) But you really need to understand that this is a different thing than whether an individual has an increased risk for homicide associated with the presence of a firearm in the home. I think maybe you actually still don’t get it. Maybe you can only comprehend “guns good/guns bad”. Which would also explain how you might not understand “evidence about gun laws inconclusive”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=19)