# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/621 "2009-10-30T05:06:04Z")
And the [cycle](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/10/11/2009-10-11_wild_shootout_in_toledo_ohio_bar_caught_on_video.html)… [[URL=“http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7089175”]continues](http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=11406955) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/622 "2009-10-30T05:58:31Z")
How are those links relevant to any of this thread? The first one was a shooting over a drug deal - something that happens all over this country, all the time, and would be almost completely eliminated if we reformed our drug policy. The second was an assault and stabbing that didn’t even involve any gunfire until the police shot him (after he attacked a police officer with a pipe.) Those incidents have jackshit to do with any single thing being discussed in this thread. Jackshit. They prove nothing. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/623 "2009-10-30T07:44:56Z")
Maybe I should change my name to Jack Shit. Just another example of the gun… if you don’t see the connection any more clearly than is evident an d luminous… senseless death upon senseless death, then I cannot remove the blinders. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/624 "2009-10-30T13:11:17Z")
What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/625 "2009-10-30T13:48:29Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Maybe I should change my name to Jack Shit. Just another example of the gun… if you don’t see the connection any more clearly than is evident an d luminous… senseless death upon senseless death, then I cannot remove the blinders. s/Jack/Dumb/ The senseless deaths here are the issue, not the means by which those deaths were achieved. You are hopelessly naive if you think our societal problem with violence will be solved by taking away one class of weapons that are relatively easy to manufacture, desired by all governments and law enforcement organizations, and are easy to smuggle. Look, I’m against gun bans because they don’t work and can’t work to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and tyrants. I couldn’t agree more that we have a societal problem with violence, I just think your methods of dealing with it are ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/626 "2009-10-30T14:02:23Z")
Be against gun bans for any other reason you like. There are lots of good ones. Don’t claim you’re against them because they don’t work. They work just fine in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/627 "2009-10-30T14:06:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Be against gun bans for any other reason you like. There are lots of good ones. Don’t claim you’re against them because they don’t work. They work just fine in other countries. [Do they?](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/628 "2009-10-30T14:12:54Z")
1. The Daily Mail’s _raison d’etre_ is scaring people. It’s literally all they do. 2. Even assuming that their figures are accurate, compare the number of per capita gun crimes in the UK to the US numbers (use any source you like). They could go on rising at that rate for 30 years and the rate would _still_ be lower. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/629 "2009-10-30T14:38:00Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > [Do they?](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html) My gut says that’s a very misleading article. Hear me out. They say “The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from **5,209** in 1998/99 to **9,865** last year - a rise of 89 per cent.” Then later they say “ **The number of people injured or killed by guns** , excluding air weapons, has increased from **864** in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of **1,760** in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent.” [emphases added in both cases] They never say what a “gun crime” or “firearm offence” is. In the UK, simply possessing a gun can be a crime. Are they counting those? What’s a gun crime according to the _Daily Mail_? At any rate, the U.S. still kicks her personified ass (which is Leeds) in gun crime. Now I’m off to read the article about the beatiful woman covering her boobs with pastries, which is the real reason the _Daily Mail_ exists. It’s sort of an inverse _Playboy_. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/630 "2009-10-30T15:04:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Be against gun bans for any other reason you like. There are lots of good ones. Don’t claim you’re against them because they don’t work. They work just fine in other countries. Like anything else, there’s a difference between a reduction and an elimination of violence. When people claim that a gun ban is going to magically stop all gun crime ever, then I feel free to say “no, that’s not what’s going to happen.” I could easily have been clearer, but I don’t admittedly put much effort into arguing with devilsknew–I’ve almost literally had better luck debating a brick wall. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/631 "2009-10-31T13:43:13Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Look, I’m against gun bans because they don’t work and can’t work to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and tyrants. I couldn’t agree more that we have a societal problem with violence, I just think your methods of dealing with it are ridiculous. And what exactly do you believe my methods are for dealing with it? I haven’t espoused any policy, let alone a gun ban. Never once. Just a question **Zeriel** …Are you, or are you not, a member of the NRA or have ever been a member? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/632 "2009-10-31T15:24:11Z")
Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/633 "2009-10-31T23:44:27Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > And what exactly do you believe my methods are for dealing with it? I haven’t espoused any policy, let alone a gun ban. Never once. > > Just a question **Zeriel** …Are you, or are you not, a member of the NRA or have ever been a member? Not a member. I don’t really hold with “no regulation” positions, either. Okay, if you’re not for gun bans, then what point exactly are you trying to make here? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/634 "2009-10-31T23:54:07Z")
Well, then I guess that makes me the communist! Or the socialist to your communist, at least. I kmow a lot of people that are NRA members and I have actually belonged to a muzzleoaders association. I just believe in common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/635 "2009-11-01T00:30:58Z")
In the matter at hand, one gun nut was taken by another gun nut who then took himself. No non-gun nut was harmed. Therefore all you haters and socialists are banning up the wrong tree. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/636 "2009-11-01T00:57:35Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In the matter at hand, one gun nut was taken by another gun nut who then took himself. No non-gun nut was harmed. Therefore all you haters and socialists are banning up the wrong tree. Can’t I try to save them from themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/637 "2009-11-01T01:52:31Z")
Nope. That’s the problem with socialism, taking away patriots’ freedom to make decisions for themselves. The government has no business in the gunfights of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/638 "2009-11-01T03:39:31Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > I just believe in common sense. I was kind of hoping for a policy position, not a vague platitude. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/639 "2009-11-03T05:03:41Z")
I’m noncommittal as of yet, I haven’t seen any common sense here. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/640 "2009-11-03T14:28:02Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > I’m noncommittal as of yet, I haven’t seen any common sense here. Blah blah blah. You haven’t shown any either, you’ve just spouted vague bullshit and irrelevant anecdotes. This is kinda like a great debate in the pit, so I can safely say I’m ignoring your trivialities until you come up with a position and some data supporting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=33)