# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/61 "2009-10-09T16:39:54Z")
Or, just perhaps, she was making a principled statement. Lots of people do that, and for various reasons. You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/62 "2009-10-09T16:46:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Or, just perhaps, she was making a principled statement. Lots of people do that, and for various reasons. > > You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? Just because they all happen to be listed in your constitution doesn’t make carrying a gun and public speaking similar, you know. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/63 "2009-10-09T16:46:27Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? Because she got shot dead. And she had been celebrated as a true patriot ™. If somebody took a principled stand on freedom of religion, and then died because the principled stand they took was they should be able to test their faith by sleeping with tigers or something, that could be hilarious. What is the 4th amendment, anyway? Search/seizure without warrants? I’ll try to think of a funny way to die because of a principled stand about warrants. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/64 "2009-10-09T16:53:08Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Or, just perhaps, she was making a principled statement. Lots of people do that, and for various reasons. > > You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? Oh please. There’s nothing principled about walking around with a handgun strapped to your hip. It’s all about projecting a “don’t mess with me/I have truck balls” sentiment to the world around you. It’s hostile and anti-social and such people deserve to be shunned by polite society. It’d be no different if she had been walking around with a sword. Oh, and do you know why taking a principled stand on a 1st Amendment issue is different? Because such a stand doesn’t entail anyone giving menacing hillbilly looks at complete strangers, and you can’t blow someone’s brains out with words. I’m so tired of gun assholes acting like some kind of oppressed minority. My family has many gun owners, including me, and none of us have ever felt compelled to strap one on and walk around in public like some kind of Jimmy Hardass. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/65 "2009-10-09T16:53:59Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Or, just perhaps, she was making a principled statement. Lots of people do that, and for various reasons. Sure they do. But I’m allowed to think that “taking a gun to pee-wee soccer” is a stupid principle. Hey, she chose the hill she wanted to die on, and then she did. I don’t understand why I’m supposed to cry for her. I feel bad that her kids had to see it, but I’m also hopeful that now maybe they’ll be raised by sane people. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/66 "2009-10-09T16:56:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Count me in with the people who think this is highly inappropriate and unfunny. > > Legal or not, openly carrying a firearm at a childrens’ soccer game displays a remarkable lack of brain function. Agree, somewhat, but in this instance there is irony, but no comedy. Those that find glee at this circumstance have never had to see it firsthand. I’m more than a little sickened by the sentiment and people expressing it. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/67 "2009-10-09T16:57:33Z")
> [@chique](#): > > _shrug_ So pit me. Beatten to it, but to rise to your challenge: You are a sick fuck. I’m glad I don’t know you in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/68 "2009-10-09T16:58:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > WAS her husband abusive prior to this? Perhaps that’s why she always had a gun on hand…weird. It’s possible. If so the ‘maritial problems’ had been going on much longer than a week. The usual response in that case is to move out, get a restraining order, etc. but that doesn’t always happen, for understandable reasons. One would think something like that would have come out about a year ago when she first made the news. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Or, just perhaps, she was making a principled statement. Lots of people do that, and for various reasons. > > You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? Because unlike taking a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, strapping on a gun a child’s sports activity isn’t a principled stand. It is waving your dick around - “Hey, I have a gun and I can kill you” is the message people take away from that, despite your intentions of simply exercising your rights. C’mon, a kids soccer game? You want to know a more dangerous place - the Courthouse- there are actually CRIMINALS there! Go ahead and try to strap on a gun and make your principled stand there. Gun right advocates shouldn’t endorse their fringe elements in the same way Christians shouldn’t endorse the people who bomb abortion clinics. Taking guns to children’s activities is not what the 2nd ammendment is about, is it? Even if you think the 2nd allows it, it’s probably not where you want to make your arguement. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/69 "2009-10-09T16:59:31Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Oh, and do you know why taking a principled stand on a 1st Amendment issue is different? Because such a stand doesn’t entail anyone giving menacing hillbilly looks at complete strangers. > . :rolleyes:Broad brush much? Still I’ll tackle that; Actually, the first amendment is about exactly that. I can look at you all sorts of ways and the 1st sees that as my freedom. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/70 "2009-10-09T17:01:41Z")
I’m missing the Doper outrage, irony is usually always funny. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It’s actually much funnier, but he told it wrong. Ok, fuck it, I’ll say it… Godamnit that was funny! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/71 "2009-10-09T17:02:16Z")
Live by the gun, die by the gun. A tragedy for her, her husband, their kids. Dark irony. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/72 "2009-10-09T17:03:20Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? Preach it, brother! My boss, a natural foe of liberty, never stops haranguing me over my daily principled stand on the 21st, which I perform in the privacy of my own CUBICLE, no less… ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/73 "2009-10-09T17:04:56Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > :rolleyes:Broad brush much? Still I’ll tackle that; Actually, the first amendment is about exactly that. I can look at you all sorts of ways and the 1st sees that as my freedom. Way to dumb down the definition of the protections the 1st Amendment provides, you leering hick. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/74 "2009-10-09T17:07:20Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Gun right advocates shouldn’t endorse their fringe elements in the same way Christians shouldn’t endorse the people who bomb abortion clinics. Taking guns to children’s activities is not what the 2nd ammendment is about, is it? Even if you think the 2nd allows it, it’s probably not where you want to make your arguement. And yet, I’ve not made that argument. Not once. Not when it happened, and not now. Describing something as a “principled stand” does not mean or even imply that I agree with her. Lots of people do things that I don’t agree with yet I can still understand their motivation for doing so. But by all means, please continue to hurl insults. Please don’t let things like reason or dignity stop you. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/75 "2009-10-09T17:16:37Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > But by all means, please continue to hurl insults. Please don’t let things like reason or dignity stop you. You’re probably not a lot of fun at funerals, are you? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/76 "2009-10-09T17:26:56Z")
How is this irony? In what way is her choice to open carry related to the fact that she was murdered by her husband? Is it just a matter of “ha ha, any gun owner who gets murdered is delicious irony!” or something? Seriously - make the logical connection for me. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Who could have guessed something like this would happen? Oh, right, anyone with half a brain. Right. The vast majority owning households eventually result in a murder-suicide, which is why 10 to 30 million people per year die in gun related deaths in the US, what with the 45 or so million gun owning households. I’ve open carried before - I guess it’s inevitable that I will be murdered and I will deserve it, right? > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > It’s darkly humorous because this would seem to be the kind of situation that people who support gun rights argue that we need to be allowed to carry guns for–to defend ourselves from other armed people who are trying to kill us. It’s not “crazy woman had it coming,” it’s “well isn’t that ironic.” That’s not an argument that anyone actually uses. That’s a retarded straw-man argument that gun control advocates attempt to put in our mouths. Their logic is - “you only need to defend yourself with a gun against other people with guns, therefore if we banned guns then guns would all dissapear, and there would be no need for one to defend yourself with” - this is retarded on all sorts of levels. Guns aren’t only useful for defending against other people with guns - they’re useful for defending yourself against anyone who has the means to cause you harm, whether it be because they’re bigger than you, or stronger, or ambush you, or catch you in a vulnerable position, or have any sort of weapons themselves, etc. There’s an implicit assumption in this stupid argument that the only reason a 120 pound woman would need a gun to defend herself against a 220 pound guy is if he also has a gun. It’s easy to make your opposition look stupid when you create positions for them that are illogical. This situation is no more “ironic” than if someone got hit by a car while crossing the street and we all said “haha! They owned a car and died by getting hit by a car - sweet irony!”. Dipshits. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/77 "2009-10-09T17:29:19Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s also unfortunate in that some idiots will see this as an argument for gun control. I think what makes it funny for some people is the internal validation they hold for their particular belief. Data analyses indicate that the odds are greater that a gun in the home will be used against a household resident than someone else. While this incident is not an _argument_ for that finding, it is an instance consistent with it, so I think “idiots” is a bit overblown. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/78 "2009-10-09T17:30:47Z")
Does your “analyses” include the thoroughly, repeatedly debunked Kellerman study, where rival drug dealers battling it out in the streets within a few miles of their homes counted as “killing someone in your own household” among dozens of other blatant intentional flaws? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/79 "2009-10-09T17:34:11Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This situation is no more “ironic” than if someone got hit by a car while crossing the street and we all said “haha! They owned a car and died by getting hit by a car - sweet irony!”. If you must make a car analogy, the best one would be “woman who provoked community outrage by driving on sidewalks hit by car”. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/80 "2009-10-09T17:35:57Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Right. The vast majority owning households eventually result in a murder-suicide, which is why 10 to 30 million people per year die in gun related deaths in the US, what with the 45 or so million gun owning households. > > I’ve open carried before - I guess it’s inevitable that I will be murdered and I will deserve it, right? The vast majority of gun owners don’t feel the need to carry a gun to kids soccer games as a “statement”. There’s a difference between gun owners and gun nuts. You do the former no favors by failing to differentiate them from the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=5)