# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/81 "2009-10-09T17:37:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you must make a car analogy, the best one would be “woman who provoked community outrage by driving on sidewalks hit by car”. Carrying a gun is not an inherently threatning or hostile action. She did not attempt to harm anyone or put anyone in harm’s way. It is also an action that, as far as I can see, has no connection to her murder. Spell it out for me. How does this qualify as irony? Let’s be honest - what’s really going on here is that people are relishing in the suffering of those who have political disagreements with them, under the flimsy guise of it being “ironic” when really it doesn’t logically hold up. If it’s funny and satisfying to you that someone who has a difference stance on an issue got murdered by her husband while her children watched, chances are you’re a dick. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/82 "2009-10-09T17:39:00Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This situation is no more “ironic” than if someone got hit by a car while crossing the street and we all said “haha! They owned a car and died by getting hit by a car - sweet irony!”. Okay, how about this: woman who becomes a national _cause célèbre_ for her insistence on conducting her entire daily life from the inside of her car as a “statement” on driver’s rights is then struck and killed by a car driven by her husband. Does that help ironize it a little? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/83 "2009-10-09T17:41:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > If it’s funny and satisfying to you that someone who has a difference stance on an issue got murdered by her husband while her children watched, chances are you’re a dick. Funny, sure. Satisfying? Meh. If it’s really pissing you off that somebody sees irony and sick humor in this, chances are you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance exhaustion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/84 "2009-10-09T17:43:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Carrying a gun is not an inherently threatning or hostile action. She did not attempt to harm anyone or put anyone in harm’s way. It is also an action that, as far as I can see, has no connection to her murder. Openly carrying a gun around a field full of six-year-olds apparently _is_ an inherently threatening and/or hostile action, as evidenced by the reactions of the other parents. > [@](#): > > If it’s funny and satisfying to you that someone who has a difference stance on an issue got murdered by her husband while her children watched, chances are you’re a dick. If you go back to the first page you’ll note that I clearly stated I don’t see anything funny about this; it’s a tragedy. However, it _is_ ironic. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/85 "2009-10-09T17:43:30Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The vast majority of gun owners don’t feel the need to carry a gun to kids soccer games as a “statement”. There’s a difference between gun owners and gun nuts. You do the former no favors by failing to differentiate them from the latter. We’d be better off if people weren’t such collosal pussies that they reacted to the presence of a gun as if it were an indicator of hostility or ill intent. The act of a law abiding person carrying around a gun should not be reacted to with hysteria, which is, IMO, a good reason that if practical people should start openly carrying everywhere. It’s only because there’s a stigma attached to it that it’s so rare - if people are in the habit of carrying guns wherever they go, then it takes extra effort to not carry somewhere specific. It’s quite common for people to carry guns everywhere, and you’ve almost certainly come across people in your daily life recently who were carrying a gun. But because people become hysterical at the sight of a weapon, it’s done concealed. If someone - a licensed, safe individual always carries a concealed handgun with them as part of their normal attire, and hence they would take it to their kids’ soccer game, is that something that makes them deserve to be murdered? If not, why does openly carrying it cause that reaction? ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/86 "2009-10-09T17:47:57Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > How is this irony? > > In what way is her choice to open carry related to the fact that she was murdered by her husband? Is it just a matter of “ha ha, any gun owner who gets murdered is delicious irony!” or something? > > Seriously - make the logical connection for me. > > . See my comment about threat assessment. She carried because of her fear of attack from people at soccer games, people at grocery stores, people talking to her in her yard. It is highly likely that these people NEVER posed a threat to her. The person who killed her was probably the only person with whom she let her guard down. That’s just a guess though. Maybe she didn’t even trust him. Maybe she was armed 24/7. What a sad way to live. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/87 "2009-10-09T17:48:05Z")
But she wasn’t just going about her life. She was making a statement. Her statement was “I have a right to carry this gun everywhere, no matter how silly.” I have no problem with guns. Just social retards. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/88 "2009-10-09T17:49:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Okay, how about this: woman who becomes a national _cause célèbre_ for her insistence on conducting her entire daily life from the inside of her car as a “statement” on driver’s rights is then struck and killed by a car driven by her husband. Does that help ironize it a little? No. It’s a poor analogy. Let’s say we stop with the analogies and you just tell me step by step why this is ironic. > [@bup](#): > > Funny, sure. Satisfying? Meh. > > If it’s really pissing you off that somebody sees irony and sick humor in this, chances are you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance exhaustion. I am in no way suffering from cognitive dissonance. In what way is my position inconsistent? It’s pissing me off because you’re all idiots who are getting off on the suffering of others who disagree with you under the guise of them deserving it because somehow they brought it upon themselves - and yet no one here has demonstrated how that is the case. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Openly carrying a gun around a field full of six-year-olds apparently _is_ an inherently threatening and/or hostile action, as evidenced by the reactions of the other parents. It’s evidence of the hysteria with which carrying guns is treated in our society - something that should be fixed by having more guns carried around, rather than less. If it weren’t such an unusual sight, it wouldn’t seem threatning - because it isn’t. Are people somehow more likely to go nuts and kill people when surrounded by 6 year olds? Are the 6 year olds going to snatch a gun out of a retention holster, take the safety off a weapon, aim it, and fire before an adult regains control of the situation? > [@](#): > > If you go back to the first page you’ll note that I clearly stated I don’t see anything funny about this; it’s a tragedy. However, it _is_ ironic. Please explain. I’ve carried openly before. Do I deserve to get murdered? If I were murdered, would you start threads laughing at how ironic it was? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/89 "2009-10-09T17:50:43Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Or, just perhaps, she was making a principled statement. Lots of people do that, and for various reasons. > > You wouldn’t likely make such comments about somebody who took a principled stand on the 1st or 4th Amendments, would you? Why is this so different that it requires the usual round of insults? I can think of plenty of “principled stands” one could take on the first amendment that would draw insults. If, instead of wearing a gun to a soccer game, someone wore, say, a t-shirt with a swastika on it, and then went to court over their right to wear that shirt, that would be a principled stand on the first amendment. It’s not going to stop other people from calling that person an asshole, though. Even people who agree with the principle you’re fighting for. Mind, I’m not suggesting a moral equivalency between wearing a handgun, and wearing a swastika. Just that both are things likely to provoke controversy, and as a result, likely to make people who disagree with that action less sympathetic if something bad happens to that person. All that being said, I really don’t see how this story is funny. Not in an, “How dare you laugh at this tragic murder!” way, but in a genuine, “Where’s the comedic element?” way. What’s the humor, here? She owns a gun, and she got shot? That’s a pretty low bar for irony. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/90 "2009-10-09T17:54:00Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > We’d be better off if people weren’t such collosal pussies that they reacted to the presence of a gun as if it were an indicator of hostility or ill intent. The act of a law abiding person carrying around a gun should not be reacted to with hysteria, which is, IMO, a good reason that if practical people should start openly carrying everywhere. It’s only because there’s a stigma attached to it that it’s so rare - if people are in the habit of carrying guns wherever they go, then it takes extra effort to not carry somewhere specific. > > It’s quite common for people to carry guns everywhere, and you’ve almost certainly come across people in your daily life recently who were carrying a gun. But because people become hysterical at the sight of a weapon, it’s done concealed. > > If someone - a licensed, safe individual always carries a concealed handgun with them as part of their normal attire, and hence they would take it to their kids’ soccer game, is that something that makes them deserve to be murdered? If not, why does openly carrying it cause that reaction? 1. I refuse to assume every single person I meet is law abiding, especially if they feel the need to walk around with a gun. I barely trust most people to operate their motor vehicles safely. 2. Define “common.” I doubt you can support your assertion. 3. If I was at my kid’s soccer game, and someone was hanging out at the game with a sword in a scabbard hanging at his side, would I really be a pussy if I thought that maybe there was something wrong with that person or thought that they may be a little unstable? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/91 "2009-10-09T17:58:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > > [@bup](#): > > > > If it’s really pissing you off that somebody sees irony and sick humor in this, chances are you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance exhaustion. > > I am in no way suffering from cognitive dissonance. In what way is my position inconsistent? Well, I said ‘chances are’ for a reason. Do you believe people who own guns are safer than people who do not? Do you believe that carrying a gun to a soccer game, concealed or not, makes you safer? Do you think she would have been just as likely to get killed by her husband if they didn’t own guns? If you answer those questions, I’ll tell you whether I think you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/92 "2009-10-09T18:00:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Carrying a gun is not an inherently threatning or hostile action… …unless you do so in a situation at which it is completely inappropriate, like a soccer game for five-year-olds in a small, rural community. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/93 "2009-10-09T18:04:50Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No. It’s a poor analogy. Let’s say we stop with the analogies and you just tell me step by step why this is ironic. Woman becomes gun rights darling, is then killed by her own husband’s gun. Don’t see how much further down it can be dumbed for you, **Beef**. A lot of things can be argued about it— was she in the right initially, did “gun fetishism” aggravate their family’s problems or was it just bad timing, is there anything darkly humorous in the situation or is it a plain tragedy— but to pretend there’s nothing ironic is absurd. You don’t strike me as stupid, so I presume you’re “failing to see it” to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/94 "2009-10-09T18:05:45Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > 1. I refuse to assume every single person I meet is law abiding, especially if they feel the need to walk around with a gun. I barely trust most people to operate their motor vehicles safely. Would the people who intended to harm people with their guns or otherwise commit crime typically carry them openly? > [@](#): > > 1. Define “common.” I doubt you can support your assertion. Millions of CCW permitholders across the country. I’m having trouble finding national numbers, but if you want I can give you a whole bunch of state numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Not all of them carry on a daily basis, but many of them do. The point is that you have no idea. If there were some sort of “national open carry day” where everyone who typically carried concealed carried openly for one day there would be massive panic as you reacted hysterically to the people you’re surrounded by on a daily basis anyway but remain unaware. And yet nothing would be different - the same people would have guns. > [@](#): > > 1. If I was at my kid’s soccer game, and someone was hanging out at the game with a sword in a scabbard hanging at his side, would I really be a pussy if I thought that maybe there was something wrong with that person or thought that they may be a little unstable? It would be unusual, as swords are not commonly carried for self defense, nor are they the best tool for it. Open carrying of handguns is only unusual because of the social culture which makes it taboo. And the only way to cure that is more open carry - if people see on a daily basis that, just like with police, there’s nothing inherently dangerous about otherwise law abiding people carrying weapons then it will become less of a taboo and generate less of a hysterical reaction when people see someone with a gun. For that reason, I think carrying a gun anywhere that it’s legal openly is a valid political statement - if millions of other people did it, we’d get over the shock and it would become expected. The lady may have been a bitch who walked around threatning people and trying to provoke fights or something. I don’t know. If that’s the case, then she’s obviously not doing some great service for gun rights. But the assumption that carrying a gun openly is inherently a threatning action is emotionally immature. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/95 "2009-10-09T18:05:53Z")
Yeah, I don’t find this funny or ironic either. Just sad for those poor kids. And like **Guin** , I too wonder if there’d been domestic violence in the home and that was part of what made her feel compelled to carry openly in public. Tragic. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/96 "2009-10-09T18:07:50Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s evidence of the hysteria with which carrying guns is treated in our society - something that should be fixed by having more guns carried around, rather than less. If it weren’t such an unusual sight, it wouldn’t seem threatning - because it isn’t. Are people somehow more likely to go nuts and kill people when surrounded by 6 year olds? Are the 6 year olds going to snatch a gun out of a retention holster, take the safety off a weapon, aim it, and fire before an adult regains control of the situation? > > Please explain. People are justifiably more worried about people going nuts and killing people when surrounded by 6 year olds. That’s not hysteria; that’s instinctive. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I don’t find this funny or ironic either. Just sad for those poor kids. And like Guin, I too wonder if there’d been domestic violence in the home and that was part of what made her feel compelled to carry openly in public. That doesn’t make any sense. If she was being beaten/abused at home, she’d carry a gun at home. Why would her husband come find her in the supermarket when he can knock her around more conveniently at home? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/97 "2009-10-09T18:09:11Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > How is this irony? Because she carried a gun to protect her from imaginary danger in ostensibly safe places, yet the gun failed to protect her from actual danger, which was her husband turning a gun on her and then himself, leaving their children as orphans. I could draw a diagram, if you’re still confused. > [@](#): > > I’ve open carried before - I guess it’s inevitable that I will be murdered and I will deserve it, right? Apparently you’re confused by the difference between “ironic” and “deserved.” I know it’s hard to tell, what with them having a whole letter in common and all. > [@](#): > > That’s not an argument that anyone actually uses. That’s a retarded straw-man argument that gun control advocates attempt to put in our mouths. Mea culpa. Go ahead and remove the word “armed” from what I said. Is that better? > [@](#): > > Guns aren’t only useful for defending against other people with guns - they’re useful for defending yourself against anyone who has the means to cause you harm, whether it be because they’re bigger than you, or stronger, or ambush you, or catch you in a vulnerable position, or have any sort of weapons themselves, etc. Sure did help prevent this woman from getting shot, didn’t it! Oh wait… > [@](#): > > This situation is no more “ironic” than if someone got hit by a car while crossing the street and we all said “haha! They owned a car and died by getting hit by a car - sweet irony!”. > > Dipshits. That’s not ironic at all. Dipshit. You seem to have listened to too much Alanis Morisette. To help you understand why your analogy fails horribly, I highly recommend \*The Compass of Irony \*by D.C. Muecke, if you can manage to get your hands on a copy. (It’s out of print–try the library.) FWIW, I have nothing against gun ownership _per se_. I just hate what I see as U.S. gun culture, which seems designed to enforce irresponsible, fetishized ownership. I’d be much happier if we had something closer to Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/98 "2009-10-09T18:14:40Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It would be unusual, as swords are not commonly carried for self defense, nor are they the best tool for it. > > Open carrying of handguns is only unusual because of the social culture which makes it taboo. And the only way to cure that is more open carry - if people see on a daily basis that, just like with police, there’s nothing inherently dangerous about otherwise law abiding people carrying weapons then it will become less of a taboo and generate less of a hysterical reaction when people see someone with a gun. For that reason, I think carrying a gun anywhere that it’s legal openly is a valid political statement - if millions of other people did it, we’d get over the shock and it would become expected. > > The lady may have been a bitch who walked around threatning people and trying to provoke fights or something. I don’t know. If that’s the case, then she’s obviously not doing some great service for gun rights. But the assumption that carrying a gun openly is inherently a threatning action is emotionally immature. And assuming regular citizens receive the same training and scrutiny that police do is naive. You also half-dodged my point. Yes, carrying a sword would be unusual, but how is that any different than carrying around a gun (aside from how effective it is in self defense situations)? Both tend to be frowned upon in social situations. Also, why do you believe social condemnation of those openly carrying guns is a problem that needs a cure? Do you have the same problem with social condemnation of smokers? Is it so strange that people don’t want to have to deal with behaviors that make them uncomfortable? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/99 "2009-10-09T18:15:17Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Well, I said ‘chances are’ for a reason. > > Do you believe people who own guns are safer than people who do not? That’s too vague a question. Evaluating if any group if safer than another for no particular definition of safe is a tricky problem in itself. It also lumps tens of millions of people with a variety of circumstances into the same group. > [@](#): > > Do you believe that carrying a gun to a soccer game, concealed or not, makes you safer? Sure - if you’re competant in handling a weapon and have the appropriate training and equipment, why wouldn’t it be? > [@](#): > > Do you think she would have been just as likely to get killed by her husband if they didn’t own guns? I don’t know enough about the situation to say. Does it matter that she had previously open carried a gun? What if she didn’t like guns at all, but her husband still owned one? Does that change the situation? Her husband owning a gun and using it on her has no necesary logical connection with her carrying a gun openly on a previous occasion. If, in a moment of rage, he had taken her own gun out of her holster and shot her with it, there might be something there. > [@](#): > > If you answer those questions, I’ll tell you whether I think you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance. By all means. > [@twickster](#): > > …unless you do so in a situation at which it is completely inappropriate, like a soccer game for five-year-olds in a small, rural community. Why is that inappropriate? I assume she was there for her own children, right? It seems to me that being armed when you are directly responsible for the safety of your own children is appropriate. Otherwise, why is it inappropriate? Is she going to go “HOLY SHIT I’M SURROUNDED BY 6 YEAR OLDS, I HAVE TO SHOOT MY WAY OUT!”? Is one of the 6 year olds going to take the gun from her and start shooting? Are guns magical talismans that cause cancer if children come within 20 yards of them? > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Woman becomes gun rights darling, is then killed by her own husband’s gun. Don’t see how much further down it can be dumbed for you, **Beef**. Yes, that’s not irony any more than a person who choose to own a car and drive gets hit by a car. In what way did her open carry of firearms lead to her husband murdering her? > [@](#): > > A lot of things can be argued about it— was she in the right initially, did “gun fetishism” aggravate their family’s problems or was it just bad timing, is there anything darkly humorous in the situation or is it a plain tragedy— but to pretend there’s nothing ironic is absurd. You don’t strike me as stupid, so I presume you’re “failing to see it” to make a point. No. I can see why people are making this conclusion. “Haha, gun nut died from a gun! HAHAHAHA IRONY!” but when you actually break it down, it’s not logical, unless you think that every time a gun owner is killed with a gun it’s also ironic. Her choice to open carry here is not relevant to this story at all. I’m a gun owner. If someone killed me with a gun tomorrow, are you going to post a pit thread laughing it up about how ironic it is? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/100 "2009-10-09T18:17:36Z")
With that attitude, Mister, I just might! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=6)