# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/121 "2009-10-09T22:08:07Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Right. Lebanon PA is plauged by attacks at the youth soccer fields. > > It’s so prevalent that googling ['soccer shooting’](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=soccer+shooting&cts=1255125152439)returns 19 million hits (warning: links to graphic videos). :rolleyes: And Littleton, Colorado had (and still has) a crime rate well below the national average. Reread what I posted. I didn’t say a mass shooting was probable; I said it was the most likely “OH FUCKING SHIT” (IOW, extreme) situation. But that was a nice attempt at deflection. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/122 "2009-10-09T22:18:27Z")
Meleanie Hain (what a painful spelling) was chatting with a friend on a web cam when her husband shot her with a 9 mm handgun. Her own gun was elsewhere in the house. The husband then went upstairs and killed himself with a shotgun. She told her attorney earlier in the year that she was separating from her husband, but they were still living together. [Link here.](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/09/gun.soccer.mom.dead/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/123 "2009-10-09T23:53:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If you think that’s what the irony is, no wonder you’re confused. This isn’t just “gun owner killed by gun.” In and of itself, that scenario is not ironic. > > This particular case is ironic because the gun she insisted on carrying to protect herself with did nothing to protect her (extra level: as she was shot to death by someone who also owned a gun “for protection”). > > Wanted to add this, but missed the edit window due to my browser freezing up: > > Irony is based in a contrast between expectations and outcomes. We would expect that the woman is made safer by carrying a handgun. Instead, her handgun is not able to protect her, and she is made less safe by the fact that her husband also carried a handgun. See the tension in the juxtaposition? That’s irony. Yes, this is exactly what I came here to say. I’m sad for the kids, but also sad that a lesson had to be learned this way. People who think that danger is just around the corner often neglect to see it close to them. Isn’t it true that gun owners are more likely to shoot themselves or a relative than a criminal? The fact that she was obsessed with making some kind of 2nd Amendment statement by stupidly bringing it to a place that was inappropriate for her radical agenda makes her death the prime example of a stupid gun nut ironically proving the point of her opposition. I’m not happy their kids are now orphans, but for the adults themselves I have little sympathy: they did this to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/124 "2009-10-10T00:14:00Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I’d like you to provide some evidence that anyone has ever said that possessing a firearm, ostensibly for personal defense, renders one immune to harm. That’s silly. Why should I? However since you missed why I consider it ironic. It’s ironic because the object of her focus was her undoing. Also it’s ironic because the first irony damaged the very cause she advocated for that object. It’s like irony stacked on irony. You don’t see irony like that much. It’s almost like art, I mean you gotta appriciate the quality of this irony. Except it’s real people, not art, and real traumatized kids so it’s a sad thing. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/125 "2009-10-10T00:17:58Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > It’s ironic because the object of her focus was her undoing. Then a guy who’s really into cars who dies by getting hit by a car while crossing the street is roughly equally ironic, right? We should have some threads where we all laugh at him and revel in the delicious comeuppance. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/126 "2009-10-10T00:19:39Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Reread what I posted. I didn’t say a mass shooting was probable; I said it was the most likely “OH FUCKING SHIT” (IOW, extreme) situation. Except that it is not. I’d think in a public gathering that you are far more likely to encounter someone having a heart attack than a mass shooting. No one straps an automated external defibrillator on their belt because there is no goddamned John Wayne fantasy about it, but it would save more lives. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/127 "2009-10-10T00:22:11Z")
I don’t know. Certainly it would have been funny if she accidentally shot and killed herself during a soccer game. (Which I kind of expected based on the thread title) But I fail to see how carrying a gun makes it funny if you are murdered in front of your kids. Yeah… if someone wants to kill you, that sucks. We already knew that. Nobody said owning a gun makes you invincible. Finding it funny because the victim carried a gun betrays an ugly bias IMO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/128 "2009-10-10T00:28:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Then a guy who’s really into cars who dies by getting hit by a car while crossing the street is roughly equally ironic, right? We should have some threads where we all laugh at him and revel in the delicious comeuppance. Actually a gearhead being taken out by a car would be ironic. The object of focus of his life resulted in his death. It wouldn’t be funny though. Irony doesn’t have to be funny. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/129 "2009-10-10T01:23:36Z")
It’s not funny. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/130 "2009-10-10T02:02:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Does your “analyses” include the thoroughly, repeatedly debunked Kellerman study, where rival drug dealers battling it out in the streets within a few miles of their homes counted as “killing someone in your own household” among dozens of other blatant intentional flaws? That’s quite a petulant little fit you’ve thrown here. These aren’t “my analyses”. These are empirical articles published in journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine, Annals of Emergency Medicine, the American Journal of Public Health. Your claim about the methodology in the Kellermann article is of course complete bullshit. The definition of homicide in the Kellermann study was limited to the house, garage or yard. Can you cite otherwise? I’d say you were lying, but I suspect you’ve just been duped by some fucknut website - so more like gullible or stupid than intentionally deceitful. How do you dispense with Wiebe 2003, Dahlberg et al 2004 and Cummings et al., 1997? All of them find that the risk of homicide and of suicide is greater for those with firearms in the home in contrast to those without. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/131 "2009-10-10T02:09:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s not funny. What if a driver died because they were distracted by one of those tacky crosses people put by the road to remember somebody who died in a car crash? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/132 "2009-10-10T02:11:37Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Yes, and some idiots will see the United States death by gunshot statistics as evidence that guns are dangerous, too. > > Or that people who own guns are more likely to be shot than people who don’t own them. Or that people who own guns are more likely to be shot by their own gun than by any other gun. > > I don’t even follow that logic. What the hell are those idiots thinking? Of course, it’s the same people that argued that because people who happened to be wearing seat belts were less likely to die in car crashes, higher seat belt use would lead to a lower death rate in car crashes. I bet since we have had a higher rate of seatbelt use that there has been a corresponding increase in the number of people who were killed with their seatbelt on. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/133 "2009-10-10T02:19:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > We’d be better off if people weren’t such collosal pussies that they reacted to the presence of a gun as if it were an indicator of hostility or ill intent. The act of a law abiding person carrying around a gun should not be reacted to with hysteria, which is, IMO, a good reason that if practical people should start openly carrying everywhere. It’s only because there’s a stigma attached to it that it’s so rare - if people are in the habit of carrying guns wherever they go, then it takes extra effort to not carry somewhere specific. > > It’s quite common for people to carry guns everywhere, and you’ve almost certainly come across people in your daily life recently who were carrying a gun. But because people become hysterical at the sight of a weapon, it’s done concealed. > > If someone - a licensed, safe individual always carries a concealed handgun with them as part of their normal attire, and hence they would take it to their kids’ soccer game, is that something that makes them deserve to be murdered? If not, why does openly carrying it cause that reaction? Do you know what WOULD be ironic? If some of the people posting in this thread were to talk about how some dude with a gun in his car at some child’s sporting event killed a gunman. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/134 "2009-10-10T02:22:33Z")
Haha ya dumb bitch you got mudered. This woman’s political views with which I disagree render her fit to slaughtered. Let us all gather round to laugh at this stupid whore’s demise. ^^This is what I am basically reading in this thread. **SenorBeef** In all fairness what is ironic about it is that the gun she carried everywhere wasn’t there to protect her from the person most likely to do her in. All this other gleeful lick-lipping I have no truck with, but I do see the irony. It’s not pleasant or funny irony, but it is ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/135 "2009-10-10T02:34:30Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Do you know what WOULD be ironic? If some of the people posting in this thread were to talk about how some dude with a gun in his car at some child’s sporting event killed a gunman. Oh, _that’s_ where those goalposts went. A gun in his car is totally different than a gun on his hip. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/136 "2009-10-10T02:41:47Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Haha ya dumb bitch you got mudered. > > This woman’s political views with which I disagree render her fit to slaughtered. Let us all gather round to laugh at this stupid whore’s demise. I don’t remember anyone saying this, you chucklebottomed lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/137 "2009-10-10T03:39:05Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Then a guy who’s really into cars who dies by getting hit by a car while crossing the street is roughly equally ironic, right? We should have some threads where we all laugh at him and revel in the delicious comeuppance. Ok, you flogged this failed analogy around enough, I’ll take a whack at it. No, a guy who drives a car getting killed by a car is not ironic _because we ALL drive cars_. It’s common, no one is upset by it. But even law abiding, legal CC gun owners don’t go strapped to a children’s soccer game. It’s stupid, irresponsible and scares the shit out of everyone there _because_ it never happens. Bullies like her who intimidate others and then get killed by their intimidation weapon of choice is ironic. It’s tragic for the kids but still ironic. Have you no sympathy for the parents and children she traumatized by brandishing a fucking Glock at a parent/child event? Jeezus. ---
**Author:** ![Dripping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d2c977/32.png) [@Dripping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dripping)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/138 "2009-10-10T03:40:48Z")
Who cares? The woman was trailer trash. Too bad she had a chance to breed before getting her stupid attention-whoring self killed. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/139 "2009-10-10T03:48:53Z")
Oh, I know what would be ironic. Winning a demolition derby and \*then \*getting hit by a car. Or getting hit by a soccer ball that somebody fired _from a soccer-ball firing gun_ from a car, while you were hunting. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/140 "2009-10-10T03:54:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s quite a petulant little fit you’ve thrown here. These aren’t “my analyses”. These are empirical articles published in journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine, Annals of Emergency Medicine, the American Journal of Public Health. I’ll address this tomorrow when I have more time. > [@PlainJain](#): > > Ok, you flogged this failed analogy around enough, I’ll take a whack at it. No, a guy who drives a car getting killed by a car is not ironic _because we ALL drive cars_. It’s common, no one is upset by it. But even law abiding, legal CC gun owners don’t go strapped to a children’s soccer game. It’s stupid, irresponsible and scares the shit out of everyone there _because_ it never happens. Bullies like her who intimidate others and then get killed by their intimidation weapon of choice is ironic. It’s tragic for the kids but still ironic. Have you no sympathy for the parents and children she traumatized by brandishing a fucking Glock at a parent/child event? Jeezus. Holy shit, no I don’t have sympathy for them, you collosal pussy. The story makes no story of her “brandishing” her weapon. Brandishing would mean that she waved it around, pointed it, used it threatningly. She let it sit in her holster. In an area where it’s legal to do so. Poor etiquette and bad judgement? Maybe. But fucking traumatizing? What kind of pathetic worldview do you have where people who saw a 2 pound piece of plastic and metal on someone’s hip are “traumatized”? Will the kids have to go to counselling for the rest of their lives? OH GOD IT WAS SO HORRIBLE. I SAW A GUN… IN A HOLSTER… ON SOMEONE’S HIP. It doesn’t take much to qualify for victimhood apparently. The story makes no mention of her making any threats, removing the gun from its holster at all, or doing anything except simply having it. If you find this to be traumatizing then you are just providing evidence of all of the irrationality and hysteria I mentioned previously about this issue. If the sight of a little hunk of metal and plastic shatters your psyche, you have some serious problems. Again we’re back to “a gun owner gets killed by a gun! I hate gun owners, so HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=8)