# Gun toting soccer mom dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115 "2009-10-08T22:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/161 "2009-10-10T09:49:01Z")
A further moral of the story is once a decision to separate is made, then get out or get an order directing the spouse to get out, and make an emergency plan appropriate to the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/162 "2009-10-10T10:58:40Z")
The more guns per capita, the more gun deaths per capita. Right. Which is why Switzerland, which has the highest amount of privately-owned guns per capita _in the world_, is such a dangerous place. I’m pretty sure that a U.S. military base has more guns per capita than any city - so by your logic there should be more gun deaths per capita on a U.S. military base than in Detroit or Los Angeles. Wake up - guns are inanimate objects. Your thinking has no logical basis at all. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/163 "2009-10-10T11:19:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Alright, now you’ve gone too far. > > Sure, Bessie _was_ a bit on the large side, but ever so nicely proportioned. In Happy Suburb Land, there is a 52% chance one of the Labradors is named after a State, and a 22% chance one is named “Buddy”. There is a 31% chance each Labrador has a small cross next to its rabies tag, proclaiming “Jesus Saves,” you know, just in case the animal ever forgot… Edited to add: come to think of it, you could lay the same odds on the kids, too. Except for the rabies tag… ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/164 "2009-10-10T12:27:15Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > … > I’m very sorry you said this. The word “obsessed” has no business being here. > > Can we just one time have this discussion without loaded language, hyperbole, and outright dishonesty from either side? Just once? I don’t think it’s too much to ask, is it? My bad for using the word “obsessed,” as I had no direct experience with the woman. I probably didn’t make it clear – I support our right to own guns, though not with much zeal. It’s odd that a thread that could ostensibly degenerate into gun-nuts vs anti-gun-nuts has veered off into irony vs not-irony. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/165 "2009-10-10T12:30:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Right, the moral of the story is that only gun-toting moms who support gun rights get shot by their husbands. The rest of us can sleep smugly and safely in our beds. > > Fucking anti-gun nuts on this board are batshit insane. For the record, I’m not anti-gun, but I am anti-“gun nut.” I think there is a huge difference. I think some people get a feeling of power from wearing a gun so that others can see it. I think that mindset is misguided at best, dangerous at worst. Guns may be hunks of plastic and metal but they have the ability to inflict harm very quickly, and the mental state of the person carrying them is critical. A person who’d wear a gun to a child’s soccer game’s mental state should be questioned. Does she deserve to get killed? Of course not. It’s a tragedy for her children and surviving family. She didn’t get killed for wearing a gun to a soccer game. She got killed by her husband and no one knows the reasons. I’m only speculating, but odds are that her husband shared her feelings about guns, but apparently was not mentally capable of making a good decision about using his. That’s what makes it scary that she wore the gun to the game in the first place. It doesn’t mean she was dangerous, but it does show that not everyone is capable of proper gun usage. Far from it. I wish everyone who owned a gun was as thoughtful, well-trained and careful as most of the gun-owners I know, but it’s just not that way. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/166 "2009-10-10T12:43:12Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Can we just one time have this discussion without loaded language, hyperbole, and outright dishonesty from either side? Just once? I don’t think it’s too much to ask, is it? Sure, but this thread has no responsibility to be that for you. Do you remember the OP? Your idea is a nice one, in a thread you start, in Great Debates. This is the pit, and I laugh at the dead woman and all the people who think it is absolutely irrelevant that she was a confrontational 2nd-amendment darling. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/167 "2009-10-10T14:17:54Z")
A very sad story. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/168 "2009-10-10T14:22:01Z")
Just can’t be too [careful](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33251920/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/): > [@](#): > > Sat., Oct . 10, 2009 A man who thought there was an intruder in his house shot and killed his fiancee the day before they were to be married, police said Friday… John Tabutt, 62, told investigators he got his gun when he thought he heard an intruder, then fired at a figure in the hallway, according to Brunelle. It was Tabutt’s live-in fiancee, 62-year-old Nancy Dinsmore, who family members say he was going to marry Saturday. Tabutt told authorities he thought she was next to him in bed the whole time. It could well have been an anti-gun nut trying to break in. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/169 "2009-10-10T14:24:40Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Which is why Switzerland, which has the highest amount of privately-owned guns per capita _in the world_, is such a dangerous place. Not even [close](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership). ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/170 "2009-10-10T14:57:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The more guns per capita, the more gun deaths per capita. Right. Which is why Switzerland, which has the highest amount of privately-owned guns per capita _in the world_, is such a dangerous place. _Apples to oranges_: Switzerland has a very different society, particularly with regard to stable, integrated community structures (have a look at “Cities with little crime: the case of Switzerland” by Marshall Barron Clinard” [Cities with Little Crime: The Case of Switzerland - Marshall B. Clinard - Google Books](http://books.google.ca/books?id=2gU6AAAAIAAJ&dq=inauthor:%22Marshall+Barron+Clinard%22&ei=BZnQSvPEAojYNv6viewN) ). _Apples to apples_: In 2000, the rate of homicide involving a gun was 3.8 per 100,000 population in the United States, nearly eight times as high as Canada’s rate of 0.5 per 100,000, and in Canada the rate of homicides involving a firearm dropped in half from the early 1980s to in 2002, which parallels the tightening of gun control in Canada in 1977 and 1995. (Statistics Canada, with data from US National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [http://www.statcan.gc.ca/ads-annonces/82-003-x/pdf/4194126-eng.pdf](http://www.statcan.gc.ca/ads-annonces/82-003-x/pdf/4194126-eng.pdf) ). So if you want a more accurate statement than “the more guns per capita, the more gun deaths per capita,” I’m quite willing to amend it to "for the USA and societies substantially similar to the USA, by national aggregate, the more guns per capita, the more gun deaths per capita.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/171 "2009-10-10T15:50:39Z")
To follow through with the wiki stats provided by DanBlather, and also apply further wiki stats on homicide by gun rates, Canada has fewer guns per capita than Switzerland and a corresponding lower homicide by gun rate than Switzerland. The USA has tremendously more guns per capita than either of these countries, and a tremendously higher homicide by gun per capita rate than either of the countries. > **[Gun ownership](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership)** > > In 2018, the Small Arms Survey reported that there are over one billion small arms distributed globally, of which 857 million (about 85 percent) are in civilian hands. The survey stated that American civilians account for an estimated 393 million (about 46 percent) of the worldwide total of civilian held firearms, or about 120.5 firearms for every 100 American residents. > The world's armed forces control about 133 million (approximately 18 percent) of the global total of small arms, of which over... > **[Gun violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence)** > > Gun-related violence is violence committed with the use of a firearm. Gun-related violence may or may not be considered criminal. Criminal violence includes homicide (except when and where ruled justifiable), assault with a deadly weapon, and suicide, or attempted suicide, depending on jurisdiction. Non-criminal violence includes accidental or unintentional injury and death (except perhaps in cases of criminal negligence). Also generally included in gun violence statistics are military or para-... ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/172 "2009-10-10T15:55:28Z")
Initially I thought the OP was a wretched little turd for giggling over the idea of the “gun toting soccer mom” being shot dead. Then I couldn’t resist laughing about this headline in the morning paper.: _“2 die, 21 sickened in sweat lodge”_ It seems that [something went wrong](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j4PHcSvMF8pPe_CpIRZejl7OD1vgD9B7SH5O0) near Sedona, AZ when 64 people who’d paid up to $9,000 crammed into a “sweat dome” to achieve spiritual cleansing and get rid of their “toxins”. The organizer of the event, James Ray, called it his “Spiritual Warrior” retreat and had [posted the following on his Twitter account](http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/09/2-people-died-in-a-sweat-lodge-last-night-and-deleted-tweets-have-surfaced): \*"JamesARay: is still in Spiritual Warrior… for anything new to live something first must die. What needs to die in you so that new life can emerge? JamesARay: Day 5 of SPW. The Spiritual Warrior has conquered death and therefore has no enemies, and no fear, in this life or the next."\* Oddly, those postings have been deleted. I am a bad person for finding humor in this, even briefly. I must be cleansed. Maybe some more hot coffee?\* \*taken the old-fashioned way, not as a coffee enema. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/173 "2009-10-10T16:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray rented the facility as part of his “Spiritual Warrior” retreat that began Oct. 3 and that promised to “absolutely change your life.” 2 out of 64 died? Well at least he can say that he kept his side of the “absolutely change your life” contract for two of them. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/174 "2009-10-10T16:23:17Z")
This story would be hilarious if it weren’t for the fact that there’s now orphaned children involved. What a stupid bitch, why would you need to go to a soccer game with an exposed pistol. Of course, I know Lebanon PA very well, maybe she was afraid of all the tweaker meth heads that live there. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/175 "2009-10-10T16:29:12Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Just can’t be too [careful](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33251920/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/):It could well have been an anti-gun nut trying to break in. You can never be too careful. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/176 "2009-10-10T16:30:22Z")
How the heck do you do a spirtual sweat with 64 people? At that industrial scale, it sounds more like fleecing than sweating to me. What a pity that people died in this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/177 "2009-10-10T19:44:55Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > This story would be hilarious if it weren’t for the fact that there’s now orphaned children involved. What a stupid bitch, why would you need to go to a soccer game with an exposed pistol. Of course, I know Lebanon PA very well, maybe she was afraid of all the tweaker meth heads that live there. :rolleyes: I guess I’m in the clear to laugh when you threaten some other redneck in a Wal-Mart parking lot and get beat to death with some truck nutz. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/178 "2009-10-10T20:53:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A gun in his car is totally different than a gun on his hip. Quite true. A gun in your car is sitting there waiting for someone to break in and steal it. A gun on your hip is protected. NOTE: Do not interpret this to mean I support open carry at kids’ soccer games. What she did was inappropriate, but she didn’t deserve to die for it, and I still think **chique** is an ass for “giggling” about her orphaned kids. > [@Muffin](#): > > Then moral of the story is the more guns per capita, the more gun deaths per capita. Yep. And the more cars per capita, the more car deaths per capita. Ditto crowbars, screwdrivers, and harpoons. If you’re going to kill someone, you’re a lot more likely to do it with something that is readily at hand, right? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/179 "2009-10-10T22:03:16Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Yep. And the more cars per capita, the more car deaths per capita. Ditto crowbars, screwdrivers, and harpoons. If you’re going to kill someone, you’re a lot more likely to do it with something that is readily at hand, right? Golly, your reasoning is irrefutable. It doesn’t matter if guns are around or not. If I’m going to kill somebody, and I have no gun, I’ll just do it with my screwdriver! Now I \*finally \*understand why Scotland’s haggis-homicide rate is so much higher than ours. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115/180 "2009-10-10T22:51:58Z")
For my next OP, I shall delineate how I laughed maniacally while fucking a sheep with a strap-on after I killed my mother. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-toting-soccer-mom-dead/513115.md?page=10)