# Gun with no iron or steel parts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 22, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264 "2012-08-22T11:16:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/1 "2012-08-22T11:16:07Z")
I’m reading an SF book in which people can “step” across to parallel versions of earth, but for some obscure reason, metallic iron cannot make the transition and is left behind. Iron atoms bound up into other molecules is fine, such as the iron in our haemoglobin, but metallic iron (and therefore steel) are out. So with this premise in mind, is it possible to build a working firearm that has absolutely \*zero \*iron or steel parts? Cost aside, could the necessary elements instead be made out of something like titanium? ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/2 "2012-08-22T11:24:22Z")
I don’t see why not. Furthermore, assuming technology advanced enough to travel through alternate dimensions it wouldn’t be entirely unreasonable to assume the discovery/invention of some sort of exotic material that exhibits whatever qualities the author desires. It all depends upon how “hard” the scifi is. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/3 "2012-08-22T11:30:10Z")
The parallel earths in the novel are virtually identical to our own and conform to the same laws of physics. The only major difference is that none of them have any humans on them. So exotic materials are out, but all of the planets’ iron ore lies untapped, ready for mining and smelting etc… The problem lies in taking anything “across” in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/4 "2012-08-22T11:30:41Z")
It’s been done before. Early cannon were made from Bronze and made in a similar manner to casting bells (in fact, bellmakers were the first cannonmakers). So you could quite easily make a matchlock muzzle-loading firearm with a bronze barrel, lockplate, and serpentine, and high-tension plastics for the springs needed to make the serpentine engage with the touch-hole after the trigger is pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/5 "2012-08-22T11:33:45Z")
Exactly the sort of excellent, informative answer I was looking for. Would something more modern than a matchlock be feasible, such as a repeating rifle of any kind? Wouldn’t brass be too soft for prolonged use? ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/6 "2012-08-22T11:35:23Z")
With respect to modern firearms the only real issue would probably be making springs without steel. You’d have to settle for lower powered cartridges and/or increased wear on the weapon. A pump action shotgun seems reasonable as long as the spring issue can be worked out or the user doesn’t mind swapping Martini Enfield’s plastic solution whenever it wears out. edit: Looks like non-ferrous springs are a thing: [http://springipedia.com/material-non-ferrous-metals.asp](http://springipedia.com/material-non-ferrous-metals.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/7 "2012-08-22T11:38:49Z")
Would a rifled barrel be at all possible with non-iron metals, or are you really restricted to smooth-bore weapons? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/8 "2012-08-22T11:47:23Z")
Steel can make a really good gun barrel, but other metals can make an adequate gun barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/9 "2012-08-22T11:49:22Z")
If anything but iron goes, I’m sure there are alternatives to steel- just that they’re going to be expensive and difficult to fabricate. Even discounting the stuff that’s too reactive to be useful like sodium or too soft like gold, there are still a score of candidates. ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/10 "2012-08-22T11:52:19Z")
Here is an example of a non-ferrous rifled barrel: [Brass Barrel Rifle](http://www.flintriflesmith.com/GunshopEraGuns/brass_barrel_rifle.htm) But you’re probably not going to get away with a real Ar-15 clone or anything firing high velocity, jacketed ammunition. I have no math to back up that claim, but I expect that it would be wise to stay with lead bullets and relatively low velocities. .45ACP seems perfect for that application in a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/11 "2012-08-22T11:52:35Z")
> [@Bibliovore](#): > > Would a rifled barrel be at all possible with non-iron metals, or are you really restricted to smooth-bore weapons? It could certainly be done; they just never bothered IRL because by the time rifling was invented, gun barrels were made of iron or steel. Incidentally, Confederate-made revolvers during the US Civil War used a lot of brass (and, I believe, bronze) components. They weren’t really up to prolonged use, from what I gather, but you could certainly make something like a Navy Colt without using iron or steel as long as you didn’t expect it to last for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/12 "2012-08-22T11:56:03Z")
Just restricting the use of iron doesn’t make the fabrication of a modern firearm all that difficult. If you want a real challenge you’ll have to eliminate the use of all metals. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/13 "2012-08-22T12:45:57Z")
Heh…would you believe I was just reading up on the [M1911 “Brastil” bronze alloy pistol](http://www.pbase.com/mrclark/image/73439213) the other day? Just the frames and slides though, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![AdamF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/adamf/32/6246_2.png) [@AdamF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdamF)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/14 "2012-08-22T13:06:05Z")
There is a number of copper, nickel, and titanium based alloys that can readily replace steel. So any kind of firearm could be made completely without iron. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/15 "2012-08-22T13:10:21Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It could certainly be done; they just never bothered IRL because by the time rifling was invented, gun barrels were made of iron or steel. > > Incidentally, Confederate-made revolvers during the US Civil War used a lot of brass (and, I believe, bronze) components. They weren’t really up to prolonged use, from what I gather, but you could certainly make something like a Navy Colt without using iron or steel as long as you didn’t expect it to last for a long time. You can buy [carbon fiber](http://www.brownells.com/items/carbon-fiber-rifle-barrels.aspx) gun barrels. Never mind, I see it’s carbon fiber and steel… ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/16 "2012-08-22T13:13:26Z")
It’s possible to build a cannon out of duct tape, so there is no reason you couldn’t make a rifle. Unlikely to be accurate or practical, but it would work. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/17 "2012-08-22T14:04:15Z")
Taurus has made several pistols out of non-ferrous metals. [Cite](http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aasttaurustrcka.htm). I can even recall one model (at least, there may have been more) made of scandium. But note this from the article: > [@](#): > > Taurus acknowledges that in spite of the Total Titanium label applied to the entire family of these guns, not every part is actually made of titanium. Instead, the company’s catalogs and promotional flyers note that the Total Titanium concept means “every component that can and should be made of titanium, is made of titanium.” > > The reason for the quibble, if that’s what it seems, stems from the fact that titanium as a workable metal alloy can only be hardened to about 42 to 44 on the Rockwell hardness scale. Above that level it goes brittle. However, a revolver action’s operating parts (which include the hammer, trigger, and sear, among others) need to be hardened to at least 52 to 54 Rockwell. Accordingly, the hammer, trigger, cylinder latch, ejector rod, and some other small parts such as springs and sideplate screws on all of Taurus’ new titanium series revolvers are made from casehardened, high-tensile-strength chrome-moly steel, which is a better material than titanium for those particular parts. So if you replace those operating parts with a metal other than hardened steel, you’ll probably be sacrificing durability. ---
**Author:** ![Rhaegar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Rhaegar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhaegar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/18 "2012-08-22T14:07:12Z")
I have heard rumors of a “ceramic” pistol, but I think it is probably fiction. From Cecil : > **[Is it possible to make an undetectable nonmetal gun?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342349/is-it-possible-to-make-an-undetectable-nonmetal-gun)** ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/19 "2012-08-22T14:16:07Z")
A bamboo barrel, reinforced with a rawhide wrapping applied wet etc. would make a serviceable, (crappy) low-power firearm without any metal in it. That’s how some of the early Chinese guns were made. [Bamboo and electric tape covers it, apparently](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2020861/how_to_make_a_homemade_gun_powder_bamboo_cannon/) ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264/20 "2012-08-22T14:44:03Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Taurus has made several pistols out of non-ferrous metals. [Cite](http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aasttaurustrcka.htm). I can even recall one model (at least, there may have been more) made of scandium. But note this from the article: > > So if you replace those operating parts with a metal other than hardened steel, you’ll probably be sacrificing durability. The Total Titanium has a steel-lined barrel, titanium won’t take rifling. And the “scandium” is an alloy of aluminium with less than 1% scandium. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gun-with-no-iron-or-steel-parts/632264.md?page=2)