# Guns are not designed to kill people **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402 "2008-11-06T03:20:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/201 "2008-11-11T22:43:32Z")
I say let the gun lovers keep their weapons, any kind they fancy… just don’t let them have as much ammo as they want. After all, it’s the bullets etc that are the lethal component! How’s that for a compromise? ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/202 "2008-11-11T22:46:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Seriously? You’d pick owning a handgun over daily oral sex? I think you’re overestimating how many people are with you on that one. I, for one, would go out and buy a handgun just so I could get in on the offer to give it up. Maybe some of us already have a hot wife? In any case, if you actually beleive something to be a right, you’re not likely to give it up for sex. If you are, you didn’t deserve it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/203 "2008-11-11T23:09:55Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I say let the gun lovers keep their weapons, any kind they fancy… just don’t let them have as much ammo as they want. After all, it’s the bullets etc that are the lethal component! How’s that for a compromise? I’ve always joked that that is the way to end this problem. Make the ammunition illegal. It’s like when you’re a kid and someone is shooting rubber bands at you. You keep tossing them back over there to the box where they belong until you realize that it’s a stupid decision. After that, you keep the rubber bands until they all run out. No more ammo = no more trouble. I’ve wondered how many Americans would actually go through the trouble to make their own bullets in such a scenario. I think it’d be a tiny amount; not much more than the amount of people that currently do it anyways. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/204 "2008-11-12T00:50:54Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > There are methods of “tagging” explosives so they can be traced back to particular lots. This could easily be done for gun powder. ETA: [link](http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/1999/08/06/42124.htm?site=science/greatmomentsinscience) Sure. No problem. I’m aware of taggants, and I’m reasonably sure you could trace the lot back to the manufacturer. Course, ammo isn’t a licensed thing. I buy a brick, store it at home, any of five people could be shooting it. I buy a few bricks, take it to the club, any of 50 people could be shooting it. What I was saying is that you can’t trace it to the _gun_ that fired it, just the manufacturer and the store that sold it. Ammo can last for decades… and I’m not even counting reloading your own. Which is, again, a common thing. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/205 "2008-11-12T00:59:06Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > I don’t believe I ever said a thing about getting rid of the Second Amendment Actually, I’m pretty damn sure I said I didn’t want to do that. You can have the scary guns, just no handguns. > > Really? Alcohol is inherently more dangerous than guns? Alcohol is designed to get you drunk. Guns are designed to kill. It is, in fact, against the second amendment, to disallow a man to keep a handgun, all other things being equal. That is _specifically_ what Heller was about. Heller wanted to keep a pistol at home. > [@Decision in Heller](#): > > Section 7-2507.02, like the bar on carrying a pistol within the home, amounts to a complete prohibition on the lawful use of handguns for self-defense. As such, we hold it unconstitutional. Got it, LOUNE? (And I should point out that one of my guns is unregistered, unlicensed, unregulated and has no serial number. It is completely legal, and it is the scariest damn gun in the world, when the action is being worked. Because if you can hear it, you’re too close.) And getting drunk relaxes inhibitions and impairs judgment. I consider being in the presence of a very drunk man much scarier than being in the presence of a heavily armed man. The heavily armed man is in full control of his weapon. The drunk man is in _no_ control of whatever he’s near, but capable of attempting to operate anything from guns to cars to spaceships. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/206 "2008-11-12T01:05:28Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Actually, I don’t know that last sentence for sure. Does anyone have the reason for the invention of silencers? They were invented at the same time as the car muffler by Hiram Maxim. The general ideal was to make guns and cars quieter. Not as a criminal enterprise, but because guns are loud. As are unmuffled cars. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/207 "2008-11-12T01:17:49Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > I’ve always joked that that is the way to end this problem. Make the ammunition illegal. It’s like when you’re a kid and someone is shooting rubber bands at you. You keep tossing them back over there to the box where they belong until you realize that it’s a stupid decision. After that, you keep the rubber bands until they all run out. No more ammo = no more trouble. > > I’ve wondered how many Americans would actually go through the trouble to make their own bullets in such a scenario. I think it’d be a tiny amount; not much more than the amount of people that currently do it anyways. Yup, I reckon your typical gun user would soon start looking for alternatives if they couldn’t get their “Qwik-Fix Instant Gratification” ammo at the local Wal-Mart anymore, rather than expending any effort in trying to make them their self. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/208 "2008-11-12T01:22:26Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Yup, I reckon your typical gun user would soon start looking for alternatives if they couldn’t get their “Qwik-Fix Instant Gratification” ammo at the local Wal-Mart anymore, rather than expending any effort in trying to make them their self. I reckon you have zero experience with civilian gun owners in the US and that ignorance is what leads you to make such pronouncements. Reloading supplies and casting supplies are a multimillion dollar industry here. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/209 "2008-11-12T02:00:50Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > It is, in fact, against the second amendment, to disallow a man to keep a handgun, all other things being equal. That is _specifically_ what Heller was about. Heller wanted to keep a pistol at home. > > Got it, LOUNE? > > (And I should point out that one of my guns is unregistered, unlicensed, unregulated and has no serial number. It is completely legal, and it is the scariest damn gun in the world, when the action is being worked. Because if you can hear it, you’re too close.) > > And getting drunk relaxes inhibitions and impairs judgment. I consider being in the presence of a very drunk man much scarier than being in the presence of a heavily armed man. The heavily armed man is in full control of his weapon. The drunk man is in _no_ control of whatever he’s near, but capable of attempting to operate anything from guns to cars to spaceships. Oh, I’ve got it, but it also doesn’t matter. After all, we’re trying to forge out some kind of common ground here despite what actually is on the books. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/210 "2008-11-12T02:34:13Z")
So… you’re not working off a reality-based paradigm. Okay. So, what paradigm are you working off of? Perhaps we have been misunderstanding you. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/211 "2008-11-12T03:19:25Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > It is, in fact, against the second amendment, to disallow a man to keep a handgun, all other things being equal. That is _specifically_ what Heller was about. Heller wanted to keep a pistol at home. > > Got it, LOUNE? > > (And I should point out that one of my guns is unregistered, unlicensed, unregulated and has no serial number. It is completely legal, and it is the scariest damn gun in the world, when the action is being worked. Because if you can hear it, you’re too close.) > > And getting drunk relaxes inhibitions and impairs judgment. I consider being in the presence of a very drunk man much scarier than being in the presence of a heavily armed man. The heavily armed man is in full control of his weapon. The drunk man is in _no_ control of whatever he’s near, but capable of attempting to operate anything from guns to cars to spaceships. The constitution was ratified in 1787. Hand guns by Colt came in 1840. So how the hell did the 2nd amendment refer to handguns. That is absolute bull. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/212 "2008-11-12T03:38:36Z")
**LOUNE** For the third time, I would THINK about agreeing to registration if those guns that I register would be exempt from future bans or confiscation. How do you feel about that? > [@gonzomax](#): > > I am 65. So when I was a teen about 50 years ago gun crimes and neighborhood shootings were not common. Whether you like it or not .it was a safer more comfortable time. We have flooded the country with guns. So if you live in a dangerous neighborhood a gun may make you feel safer. But with 2 more guns, the country is a little less safe. > When a person got shot in the 60s it was a story. Now it is so common it is a non story. The local news would not have time to show the weather if they followed every gun incident. > If we could confiscate every damn gun in America, it would be a better ,safer place to live. Just leave hunting rifles for the hunters. Make sure those are locked up, > But the gun nuts won. That bell can not be unrung. We are ass deep in lethal weapons and goof balls will shoot each other and innocent bystanders. Schools will get shot up. Wifes and husbands will shoot each other. Life goes on a little uglier ,a little more dangerously and a bit more crudely. I’m 48 **gonzomax**. My Father is 79. I spent a few years introducing him to the information age. My father wants to write a book.. He only has a Title though. More and more, about less and less. I’m not a gun nut. Far from it. I just happen to own some and know a little bit about them. It’s my penchant for mechanics and science. I voted for Obama because I think he had the best ideas for the future of the county. I’ve been around guns for 35 years. I think that CCW should be controlled. Very few people need to carry a pistol. And if you do, I think you may be doing something wrong. With that said, and I guess some pro CCW folks bashing me, let me contradict myself. We are watching out for our ‘neighbors’ house. Last year a bear broke into it and made a den in the crawlspace. I hope it did not come back. I hope. I’m going to check it out tomorrow. I’ll take a .357 revolver, and a Marlin 336er in .356 win. As much for my own safety as that for the bear. Banging pots and pans doesn’t work. Is that ‘overkill’ ? Perhaps. Here’s the flashlight. Who wants to come with me? As there are about 150,000,000 firearms in the US **I enipla** think that it is irresponsible to know nothing about fire arms and then put forth arguments to regulate them. ---
**Author:** ![Kaboodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kaboodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaboodle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/213 "2008-11-12T04:41:11Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > \… Guns are pretty safe, these days. Much safer than they used to be. Mostly through improvements in gunpowder, and **improved design**. …\ (Bolding mine) That’s was one of the things the fool who wrote the OP thought. Nope, guns are designed to kill people. Have we been reading the same thread? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/214 "2008-11-12T04:48:28Z")
Kaboodle, silly person, there are dangerous guns. For example, the Nambu Type 14. > **[Nambu pistol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol)** > > The Nambu pistols (南部拳銃 or 南部大型自動拳銃, Nanbu kenjuu/Nanbu ōgata jidou-kenjuu) are a series of semi-automatic pistols produced by the Japanese company Koishikawa Arsenal, later known as the Tokyo Artillery Arsenal. The series has three variants, the Type A, the Type B (also known as the Baby Nambu), and the Type 14 (十四年式拳銃, Jūyon nen shiki kenjū). The Nambu pistols were designed to replace Japan's earlier service pistol, the Type 26 revolver. > The pistols were designed by Kijiro Nambu and saw extens... Compare and contrast it with a modern Glock with trigger, firing pin, and drop safetys. > **[Glock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_18)** > > Glock (stylized as GLOCK) is a brand of polymer-framed, short recoil-operated, locked-breech semi-automatic pistols designed and produced by Austrian manufacturer Glock Ges.m.b.H. > The firearm entered Austrian military and police service by 1982 after becoming the top performer in reliability and safety tests. > Glock pistols have become the company's most profitable line of products, and have been supplied to national armed forces, security agencies, and police forces in at least 48 countries. ... One is likely to explode in your hand. The other can be dropped on the floor and still not fire accidentally. That is improved design increasing safety. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/215 "2008-11-12T04:50:24Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The constitution was ratified in 1787. Hand guns by Colt came in 1840. So how the hell did the 2nd amendment refer to handguns. That is absolute bull. > **[File:Yuan chinese gun.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yuan_chinese_gun.jpg)** > > This picture has since been republished with Yannick Trottier's (the photographer's) permission in Ian Morris's "War, What Is It Good For?" in 2014. The attribution in the book incorrectly suggests that copyright is still held by Yannick Trottier. The correct license is given below.--Ytrottier (talk) 02:45, 5 May 2014 (UTC) > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file. 12th century hand cannon. Read the darn decision for why. It’s the law of the land. I quote the Supreme Court making a _clear_ statement, and you still bitch? ---
**Author:** ![Kaboodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kaboodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaboodle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/216 "2008-11-12T04:57:18Z")
Okay **E-Sabbath** , I’m genuinely curious. Pick a firearm. What part of the design, besides ammo/caliber, makes it better for killing people? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/217 "2008-11-12T04:58:59Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] A lot of things kill people. Alcohol for instance kills a LOT more people a year than guns do. So…why not ban that? [/QUOTE] Two guys were sitting in a hole. One of them notices that there are a large number of scorpions in the hole with them. He says “Maybe we should stamp out these scorpions before they kill us”. The other turns and says “Scorpions are cool!” and points to a nest of snakes and says “These snakes are just as deadly! Are you gonna kill all them too?!” “Well, no, we can at least eat the snakes”. “You can eat scorpions too, if you’re hungry enough”. “OK, ok, no killing any….. arrrgh fuck!..ack” “Arrgh fuck!..ack” > [@sinical\_brit](#): > > Airman, i have noticed that in nearly all gun threads on this site, the meme that cars kill more people than guns Let’s make a deal. Those who prefer cars can drive their cars to work, those who prefer guns can fire themselves from a cannon to work. Everybody wins. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/218 "2008-11-12T05:03:29Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > **LOUNE** For the third time, I would THINK about agreeing to registration if those guns that I register would be exempt from future bans or confiscation. > > How do you feel about that? > > I’m 48 **gonzomax**. My Father is 79. I spent a few years introducing him to the information age. My father wants to write a book.. He only has a Title though. More and more, about less and less. > > I’m not a gun nut. Far from it. I just happen to own some and know a little bit about them. It’s my penchant for mechanics and science. I voted for Obama because I think he had the best ideas for the future of the county. > > I’ve been around guns for 35 years. I think that CCW should be controlled. Very few people need to carry a pistol. And if you do, I think you may be doing something wrong. > > With that said, and I guess some pro CCW folks bashing me, let me contradict myself. > > We are watching out for our ‘neighbors’ house. Last year a bear broke into it and made a den in the crawlspace. I hope it did not come back. > > I hope. I’m going to check it out tomorrow. > > I’ll take a .357 revolver, and a Marlin 336er in .356 win. As much for my own safety as that for the bear. Banging pots and pans doesn’t work. > > Is that ‘overkill’ ? Perhaps. Here’s the flashlight. > > Who wants to come with me? > > As there are about 150,000,000 firearms in the US **I enipla** think that it is irresponsible to know nothing about fire arms and then put forth arguments to regulate them. Sure. I’m down. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/219 "2008-11-12T05:55:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [File:Yuan chinese gun.jpg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Yuan_chinese_gun.jpg) > 12th century hand cannon. Read the darn decision for why. It’s the law of the land. I quote the Supreme Court making a _clear_ statement, and you still bitch? So the constitution refers to rare Chinese guns ,which were not even here. Maybe it refers to French dueling pistols. Or maybe you are wrong. Handguns came much later. The weapon of use in America at the revolution was the musket and hunting rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Kaboodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kaboodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaboodle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402/220 "2008-11-12T06:29:19Z")
On second thought, ignore my last post. I had another semantics attack. Maybe I should go see a doctor… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-are-not-designed-to-kill-people/471402.md?page=12)