# Guns, Drugs and 3D printers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540 "2012-12-30T02:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/61 "2013-01-03T13:01:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I discussed this last night with my brother the engineer, and he agrees and says that, moreover, illegal uses are what is going to “drive the adoption” of this technology. I.e., it will come on the market mainly **because** people want to make drugs with it, and that will, incidentally, leave it affordably available for non-criminal uses. Pretty much the same way that we owe the rapid evolution of the internet to porn. The thing with chemicals is that for some, a very small amount can go a very long way for good or ill, in which case, you aren’t necessarily concerned with feedstocks. That’s only an issue if you want the best yields. If you don’t care about yields and only care about a usable end product, that’s a very different game. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/62 "2013-05-08T04:50:42Z")
So the only advantage it has over a computerized 8-axis milling machine is that it’s cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/63 "2013-05-08T04:54:12Z")
What I’d like to see is a chemputer that works in reverse – that, is, breaks down complex chemical substances – i.e., most of the solid and liquid and gaseous waste-stream – into component elements. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/64 "2013-05-08T07:48:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What I’d like to see is a chemputer that works in reverse – that, is, breaks down complex chemical substances – i.e., most of the solid and liquid and gaseous waste-stream – into component elements. It’s called “the digestive system”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/65 "2013-05-08T13:48:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s called “the digestive system”. Great, now we just need one that can handle forms of toxic industrial waste not suitable for processing into snack foods. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/66 "2013-05-08T14:04:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Great, now we just need one that can handle forms of toxic industrial waste not suitable for processing into snack foods. Is there really enough left over to worry about? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/67 "2013-05-08T14:57:28Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > As far as the blocking technology, if I were a printer maker I would start by treating a 3D gun design like a computer virus. My printer would refuse to work unless updated with the latest signatures of 'banned designs and then scan the design it is about to print. There are several reasons why that won’t work: 1. Trivial alterations to the design specs (as simple as embossing a half-millimeter-deep logo on one part) would change the digital signature of the file without altering the functionality of the output. 2. Trivial spoofing of the “banned design” download (i.e. connect the 3D printer to a computer that tells the printer “no updates so far” or even “the banlist has been updated to [junk file]”) would circumvent the system altogether. 3. Any “banned design” file that is sufficiently comprehensive to cover basic firearm building blocks (in separate job lots, perhaps, as yet another way around the naive idea of “banned designs”) would generate a plethora of false positives for anything that used a hollow tube, a spring-loaded feed, etc. > [@](#): > > Another approach (probably not requiring heavy AI) would be pattern recognition that would block things that looked like gun parts. Distinguishing gun parts from the aforementioned hollow tubes, spring-loaded feeds, et cetera used for other purposes would require AI on a level that would render this issue, and all other issues, moot – the computers would be in charge and (if we’re lucky) keeping their original creators around for sentimental reasons. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/68 "2013-05-08T15:38:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Why did drugstores sell saltpeter and sulfur? Someone else has already mentioned the use of saltpeter. Sulfur has some mild anti-fungal properties, which may be why drugstores stocked it once (garden centers still sometimes carry it for use as an organic anti-fungal crop dust). ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/69 "2013-05-09T00:40:48Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Is it common for tool manufactures to be held liable for the items their tools produce today? It often is. [This](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/alfred-anaya/all/) guy installed secret compartments in cars, so the DEA put him in jail. If you are knowingly doing something that aides and abets criminal activity, you can bet they will find a way lock you up. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > E.G. There is little reason to buy some high priced a mickey mouse doll if you can just print one. If that were the case, few luxury brands could exist. You can by near exact knockoffs of most things now. Does a Picasso reproduction make the original worth less? People still, rightly or wrongly, differentiate between a genuine article and a reproduction. Yes, there will be some that will be okay with a knockoff, but this won’t become the problem you foresee it being. Especially if acquiring said reproduction takes the money and expertise involved with 3-d printing. > [@furdmort](#): > > 3D-Printers are (and will for a long time continue to be) the province of hobbyists, prototype manufacturers, and special item producers. You can make small production runs of low demand items with them, but at some point it is cheaper just to make the tooling to build your gadgets and do a large production run. > > As the machines improve, they’ll start taking the place of injection molding and similar processes in the factories. Home units will always be limited by the space needed to keep and process various materials, and by the space needed to keep and operate the machine. This. Guns are mainly a problem in the hands of a few small groups: gang members, criminals, violent fuckups, crazy people, and terrorists. All those groups are either too stupid and lazy to bother printing their own guns, or not price sensitive enough to be wondering how to get access to (eventually) cheaper guns. It’s not like it’s hard to get a gun now. There are roughly as many guns as people in this country. You can get a gun on the street for $100-$200. Printing your own gun would need to come down A LOT in terms of price, ease, and reliability before it would become a main source of weapons for criminals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/70 "2013-05-10T21:54:30Z")
[State Department forces activist Cody Wilson to remove printed-gun specs from his website.](http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/09/3d-gun-printer-defense-distributed-pull-weapon-specs-off-website/) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/71 "2013-05-10T22:44:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [State Department forces activist Cody Wilson to remove printed-gun specs from his website.](http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/09/3d-gun-printer-defense-distributed-pull-weapon-specs-off-website/) The genie is out of the bottle, and they really think they can effectively stop it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/72 "2013-05-10T22:53:02Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The genie is out of the bottle, and they really think they can effectively stop it? I rather think they think they have to appear to be doing something. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540/73 "2013-05-12T04:52:58Z")
Someone should merge these threads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-drugs-and-3d-printers/645540.md?page=3)