# Guns in bars **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 7, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588 "2010-03-07T03:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/81 "2010-03-07T22:48:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It will. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/82 "2010-03-07T22:52:31Z")
My psychic powers. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/83 "2010-03-07T23:19:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My psychic powers. The Honorable Senator Brown, the New Orleans Saints and Superbowl MVP Drew Brees would probably question the accuracy of your powers. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/84 "2010-03-07T23:29:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite that it doesn’t happen? > > If it doesn’t happen, it will. Guns and alcohol don’t mix. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. I’ll tell you what, why don’t you find me a few instances of this actually happening… since it’s already legal to CCW into bars in some states. Rather than having me disprove, why don’t you try proving? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/85 "2010-03-07T23:36:14Z")
Dio doesn’t like to allow facts to include on his ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/86 "2010-03-08T00:04:59Z")
What ideology would that be? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/87 "2010-03-08T02:10:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What does anyone need a gun in a restaurant for? It might have helped at Luby’s. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/88 "2010-03-08T02:21:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It hasn’t been a problem in Minnesota because virtually all public establisments, on their own (not by law), have chosen to prohibit firearms on their premises and post signs saying they’re not allowed. Something similar happened in Texas after they passed their CCW law. The weird thing was that a lot of these establishments didn’t bother to follow the state’s requirements on how to display the no gun signs. In particular, I remember Valley View Mall in Dallas had their signs in areas that were difficult to spot and the letters were not the proper height. A lot of those signs ended up coming down after a few months when Texas didn’t turn into the wild west. At any rate, if Minnesota isn’t a good example there are other states. Texas, Florida, etc. > [@](#): > > In my opinion, it’s completely idiotic to mix guns and alcohol, but I’m all for letting thos idiots in Virginia learn the hard way. If they want to have drunk rednecks shooting at each other in bars, then let them have at it. The problem is that this doesn’t appear to be happening in states that do allow CCW holders to go into places that serve alcohol. If it is, I’d love to see some evidence. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/89 "2010-03-08T02:33:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What ideology would that be? The ideology that “GUNS ARE BAD!!!” > [@Odesio](#): > > It might have helped at Luby’s. A typical anti-gun response to this argument is “Great, just what a situation like that needs–MORE people with guns causing MORE bullets to fly around!!” They think guns have a will and an ability to act on that will, and they are all just hell-bent on destruction. They don’t understand that a gun in the hands of a law-abiding person in a situation like that Luby’s would have saved a lot of lives. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/90 "2010-03-08T02:39:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > They don’t understand that a gun in the hands of a law-abiding person in a situation like that Luby’s would have saved a lot of lives. **Maybe** it could have saved lives. While I support the right of people to carry arms for self defense, I do not view it as a magic bullet (ha ha) that will automatically protect the individual or society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/91 "2010-03-08T02:46:44Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The ideology that “GUNS ARE BAD!!!” > > A typical anti-gun response to this argument is “Great, just what a situation like that needs–MORE people with guns causing MORE bullets to fly around!!” They think guns have a will and an ability to act on that will, and they are all just hell-bent on destruction. They don’t understand that a gun in the hands of a law-abiding person in a situation like that Luby’s would have saved a lot of lives. I’m pro-gun rights, actually, but thank you for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/92 "2010-03-08T03:01:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m pro-gun rights, actually, but thank you for playing. Coulda fooled me. On the first page of this thread you seemed to assume that this law would increase the number of drunk armed people in bars. You then asked why anyone would “need” a gun in a restaurant. I suspect you have a unique definition of “pro-gun rights” that doesn’t include all that many gun rights at all. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/93 "2010-03-08T03:03:49Z")
Yeah, he has a pretty mild definition of “pro-gun” as he applies to himself, and then he uses it to bail himself out of arguments as he just did. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/94 "2010-03-08T03:05:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Coulda fooled me. On the first page of this thread you seemed to assume that this law would increase the number of drunk armed people in bars. You then asked why anyone would “need” a gun in a restaurant. I suspect you have a unique definition of “pro-gun rights” that doesn’t include all that many gun rights at all. You’d be wrong. I believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says, and shouldn’t be abridged. I think people have the right to own whatever they want. I just don’t like gun nuts very much. Kind of like how I support free speech, but can’t stand Glenn Beck. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/95 "2010-03-08T12:15:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What’s _wrong_ with that? It is, quite simply, the wrong law for the job. We all agree that you shouldn’t drink while carrying a weapon. But the existing law does not make it easier to enforce that requirement, it just catches a bunch of bystanders in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/96 "2010-03-08T13:28:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It will. Why hasn’t it already happened in states with similar laws, then? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/97 "2010-03-08T14:17:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why hasn’t it already happened in states with similar laws, then? Well, my opinion it that us neighbors to his south are a far more refined class of drunks. I can’t speak for the rest of the states where this is not a problem. We’ve had CCW in place for decades and I have yet to see a single sign stating that I was not welcome in any establishment while carrying other than specified “gun free” zones such as schools, courthouses, and the Federal building. We can carry into any bar or restaurant of our choosing but cannot become “under the influence.” Due to a patchwork of laws that vary by county, most have assumed that to mean under “any” influence of alcohol. Legal carriers aren’t shooting up the local bars any more than they are the local Chili’s, Flinger’s, or Tchotke’s. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/98 "2010-03-09T02:21:22Z")
**TWEEEET!** Everyone get back to the actual debate in the OP. No more pontificating about the general philosophy regarding law and no more sniping at each other just because one is in a cantankerous mood. (Heck, half of the feuds in this thread have been between people on the same side of the primary argument just deciding to piss on someone else’s slightly argument favoring the same position.) Knock it off. **[/Moderating]** ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/99 "2010-03-09T04:38:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nothing will prevent them from raping a baby either. That wouldn’t happen if the baby was packing heat! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588/100 "2011-08-27T17:53:17Z")
It’s been a year and a half. > [@Richmond-Times Dispatch](#): > > Virginia’s bars and restaurants did not turn into shooting galleries as some had feared during the first year of a new state law that allows patrons with permits to carry concealed guns into alcohol-serving businesses, a Richmond Times-Dispatch analysis found. > > The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper’s request. > > And overall, the crimes that occurred during the law’s first year were relatively minor, and few of the incidents appeared to involve gun owners with concealed-carry permits, the analysis found. [From here.](http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/aug/14/tdmain01-gun-crime-drops-at-virginia-bars-and-rest-ar-1237278/) Comments? I have a theory. My theory is that most ardent opponents of the bill knew that this result would ensue. They opposed the law because they saw it as a philosophical issue, not a real danger of shootouts, because they knew that as a general principle, concealed carry permit holders are interested in obeying the law. Perhaps I’m wrong. It’s just a theory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-bars/531588.md?page=6)