# Guns in homes with children: protection or danger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382 "2013-06-19T18:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/21 "2013-06-20T21:59:36Z")
Don’t forget the[Hello Kitty! AR-15](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/1-17-08-hk_ar-15.jpg) If people want decorative colors it’s no problem if they are practicing proper gun safety and storage. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/22 "2013-06-21T00:26:52Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > This might actually be a good point. A home invader may continue to break into your house when he thinks you’re pointing a toy at him rather than a real gun. I don’t have any sympathy for bad guys that get shot, but having them stop what their doing and run away is a better result for everyone involved. And the opposite situation also poses a serious problem. It’s a very, very bad idea to point a realistic-looking toy gun at someone who’s carrying the real thing. I can’t think of many better ways to get shot! Weapons should look like weapons and toys like toys, for everyone’s safety. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/23 "2013-06-21T12:15:19Z")
My brother and I were raised my parents who kept unlocked loaded guns in the house. We knew how dangerous they were and never to touch them. Your daughters are 9 and 13? If they don’t know by those ages how dangerous guns are and not to even touch them unless an adult is supervising, then you need to make up on some negligent parenting. Truthfully, when I hear of a childhood firearms accident on the news, I am sad by the meeting of poor parenting with Darwinism. Little kids should not earn Darwin Awards based on the faults of their parents. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/24 "2013-06-21T13:32:56Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > My mother-in-law likes to sew quilts and has a set of tools with a floral pattern she uses when she needs to make adjustments to her sewing machine. Why? Because her husband won’t “borrow” the pliers with pretty little flowers all over it. As far as the pink, well, people have been decorating firearms for centuries now. Pink might not be my first choice but I don’t think it’s indicative of immaturity. Gimme one all decked out in gold. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/25 "2013-06-21T13:46:44Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Statistically, does having a gun in the house have more impact by a) defending against violent crime or b) causing child deaths? I don’t think this is right way to look at it. Statistically, I’m certain the odds are extremely low or very likely even nonexistent that your children will be killed or maimed by playing around an open alligator pit, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe to have one in your home. It’s simply a matter of whether or not you feel your children are safe with their armed grandmother. Obviously you trust her with your children otherwise. The variable here is the weapon; I, nor anyone else here, knows your mother, so only you are in any position to make that judgement, and it seems to me from what you wrote that you’ve already made that judgement. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/26 "2013-06-21T14:04:33Z")
According to [this](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/11/children-protection-gun-violence/2079177/)there are about 80 accidental gun deaths per year amoung children younger than 14. The national crime victim survey reports about 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Since 43% of households have children in them. Esitmate that 43,000 times defensive gun uses per year occur in homes with children or to someone with a child in their home. So a defensive gun use is about 500 times as likely to happen as one of your children being killed by the gun. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/27 "2013-06-21T16:09:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > … So a defensive gun use is about 500 times as likely to happen as one of your children being killed by the gun. That’s an average across all scenarios. OP asks about Grandma with a hot pink gun. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/28 "2013-06-21T18:54:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > That’s an average across all scenarios. OP asks about Grandma with a hot pink gun. I found a [list](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/14/1216195/-Six-months-of-accidental-shootings-of-children-since-Newtown#)of 188 accidental shooting over the last six months involving children. Most were not fatal, and only one involved a pink gun. None involved being shot by a grandmother. It seems to me the danger is not the grandmother but the kids finding the gun and playing with it. If the gun is on her person it seems safe. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/29 "2013-06-23T01:25:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I thought the Supremes struck down that federal law? > [@pkbites](#): > > They did. Then Congress rewrote the law. Ah, thanks - I missed that bit. Here’s the [wiki article on it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990#Challenges): > [@](#): > > The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 was originally passed as section 1702 of the Crime Control Act of 1990. It added 18 U.S.C. § 922(q); 18 U.S.C. § 922 itself was added by the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968. > > The Supreme Court of the United States subsequently held that the Act was an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution in United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995). This was the first time in over half a century that the Supreme Court limited Congressional authority to legislate under the Commerce Clause. > > Following the Lopez decision, President Clinton’s Attoney General Janet Reno proposed changes to 18 U.S.C. § 922(q) that were adopted in section 657 of the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, Pub.L. 104–208, 110 Stat. 3009, enacted September 30, 1996.[5] These minor changes required that the firearm in question “has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce”.[6] > > As nearly all firearms have moved in Interstate Commerce at some point in their lives, critics assert this was merely a legislative tactic to circumvent the Supreme Court’s ruling.[5] ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/30 "2013-06-23T01:58:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > According to [this](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/11/children-protection-gun-violence/2079177/)there are about 80 accidental gun deaths per year amoung children younger than 14. > The national crime victim survey reports about 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Since 43% of households have children in them. Esitmate that 43,000 times defensive gun uses per year occur in homes with children or to someone with a child in their home. > So a defensive gun use is about 500 times as likely to happen as one of your children being killed by the gun. There was a post up-thread which said that about 20,000 accidental injuries occurred per year; if he’s only concerned about his kids getting killed, then 80 per year is a good number. If he doesn’t want his kids shot by accident, 20,000 works better, and suddenly the odds are only 2:1 in favor of the gun being discharged defensively. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/31 "2013-06-23T23:21:09Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Hot pink might be less of temptation for boys to play with, too girlish. A .380 pocket pistol is particularly hard to shoot well though, especially for a grandma. The OP says that the pistol is in a waistband holster so its not really clear how big the pistol is. And to be fair, a .380 is a pretty light pistol. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > There was a post up-thread which said that about 20,000 accidental injuries occurred per year; if he’s only concerned about his kids getting killed, then 80 per year is a good number. If he doesn’t want his kids shot by accident, 20,000 works better, and suddenly the odds are only 2:1 in favor of the gun being discharged defensively. A couple of math nits. You are comparing 100% of accidents with 47% of defensive uses. 81260/5 is approximately 16,000 defensive gun uses per year 2003 through 2007 is 5 years. So you should be comparing 16,000 accidental firearm injuries with 100,000 defensive gun uses. You are at about a 6 to 1 ratio at that point. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/32 "2013-06-24T20:20:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The OP says that the pistol is in a waistband holster so its not really clear how big the pistol is. And to be fair, a .380 is a pretty light pistol. Do you mean the pistol itself is light or the round it fires is light?😕 I’ve had a couple of .380’s (Ruger & Kel-Tec). I’m a very experienced shooter with large hands and let me tell you, depending on ammo used, in those little guns the .380 round can kick like a bitch! Especially the Kel-Tec 3AT. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/33 "2013-06-24T21:22:49Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Do you mean the pistol itself is light or the round it fires is light?😕 > > I’ve had a couple of .380’s (Ruger & Kel-Tec). I’m a very experienced shooter with large hands and let me tell you, depending on ammo used, in those little guns the .380 round can kick like a bitch! Especially the Kel-Tec 3AT. I meant the round. .380 has about half the muzzle emeegy of a 9mm. Im not familiar with the kel tec 3at. Is it madesof balsa wood and oaper mache? Can you think of a more appropriate defensive round? For an elderly woman? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/34 "2013-06-24T21:59:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Im not familiar with the kel tec 3at. Is it madesof balsa wood and oaper mache? Might as well be. It’s made of the thinnest polymer of any of the plastic guns. It doesn’t handle recoil real well. The Ruger .380 is the identical size but didn’t kick as much. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Can you think of a more appropriate defensive round? For an elderly woman? The largest round she can shoot accurately. If it’s a 45 it’s a 45, if it’s a .380 it’s a .380. If it’s only a .22, so be it. Most of us can’t throw rocks @ 1000 feet a second, so having a .22 is better than having no gun at all in an emergency. When concealable size meets caliber is when things get tricky. .380 in a large frame pistol is quite nice to shoot, not so nice in a mouse gun. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQLo1Zb8ss) is a 9mm in a size smaller than many .380’s. But it’s not much fun to shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/35 "2013-06-24T22:08:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Can you think of a more appropriate defensive round? For an elderly woman? Most .380 are put in polymer pocket pistols that are too light and with too small a grip to be fired with any ease. It would be particularly hard for a weaker woman to shoot. A 9mm full size or compact would likely be easier to shoot with less felt recoil, though not quite as easy to carry. My girlfriend likes shooter her 9mm glock and especially her 1911. I let her try my .380 Bodyguard and she fired one mag and declined to shoot it anymore. I found it unpleasant myself, but it is handy. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/36 "2013-06-24T22:11:42Z")
The problem with a .22, besides stopping power, is that the rimfire cartridges are generally less reliable than a centerfire. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/37 "2013-06-24T22:36:15Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > The gun is hot pink. As the cites provided by others show, it’s hard enough to keep kids away from regular guns. A gun that looks like a toy? I’d be worried, too. Step 1: Purchase gun safe. Step 2: Establish protocol that the gun must always be in one of the following five conditions: (a) locked in safe; (b) in hand on way to being locked in safe; (c) in hand on way to holster (itself on your person); (d) in holster and on your person; (e) in hand for use or cleaning. Step 3: Follow protocol invariantly. > [@](#): > > ETA: I’m not sure I get the point of pink everything for women anyway. Am I 12? If I get a handgun, I want a cold and efficent looking one. Black or gray. Not pink! You’re quite right here. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/38 "2013-06-24T22:41:15Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The problem with a .22, besides stopping power, is that the rimfire cartridges are generally less reliable than a centerfire. This I know. But read the rest of my post. If that is the largest caliber one can competently shoot, in a life/death situation it is better to have it than not. Using fresh name brand .22 ammo greatly increases the reliability too. I personally carry a baby Glock for CCW, either a 26 9mm or a 27 .40 cal. While not the smallest, using a Clipdraw, a pocket holster, or an ankle holster it’s more than concealable and handles the larger calibers just fine. But someone with smaller hands may have a problem with it’s grip. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/39 "2013-06-24T23:38:52Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > According to [this](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/11/children-protection-gun-violence/2079177/)there are about 80 accidental gun deaths per year amoung children younger than 14. > The national crime victim survey reports about 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Since 43% of households have children in them. Esitmate that 43,000 times defensive gun uses per year occur in homes with children or to someone with a child in their home. > So a defensive gun use is about 500 times as likely to happen as one of your children being killed by the gun. Oy. 100K defensive gun uses, if accurate, in no way translates into 100K deaths prevented. Or even a single death prevented. You cannot know. Scaring off someone thought to be trespassing counts. Responding to someone demanding your iPod or he’ll beat up up counts. It does not mean the other person had a gun or posed a threat to life. No way to know how often and some studies claim very rarely. How many in households? Overall the risk of a child being killed by an intruder into the home is near zero. Most violent home invasions are by known individuals and serious injury is rare. Overall the rate for[all fatal assault](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5307a1.htm#tab2) in children is 3.9/100K for kids 0 to 4 and under 1/100K for kids 5 to 14. Let’s be real, both numbers are very tiny. The issue is knowing the particular person in question. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/40 "2013-06-25T03:14:43Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > This I know. But read the rest of my post. If that is the largest caliber one can competently shoot, in a life/death situation it is better to have it than not. > > Using fresh name brand .22 ammo greatly increases the reliability too. I wasn’t arguing with you. I was just saying .22s generally misfire more than centerfires, even with new brand name ammo, cause they do. I still wouldn’t want to be shot by one though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382.md?page=3)