# Guns in homes with children: protection or danger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382 "2013-06-19T18:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/41 "2013-06-25T03:17:28Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Might as well be. It’s made of the thinnest polymer of any of the plastic guns. It doesn’t handle recoil real well. The Ruger .380 is the identical size but didn’t kick as much. I guess my point is that all things being equal .380 have less kick than other cartridge and .380 is about the bottom of the range for effective defensive rounds. > [@](#): > > The largest round she can shoot accurately. I think you can shoot any round accurately, you may not like practicing with it or your follow up shots might take a second longer with some guns than others but you can train yourself with almost any gun. Heck I fire a 3" barrel .460 bear gun pretty accurately but it would take a bear coming at me to want to fire that gun. The .460 10" barrel on the other hand is not much worse than my 1911 or even my glock 27 (its just frikking heavy). If you mean “the largest round she is comfortable with” then I would say that anything less than a .380 and you had better be a pretty good shot if you want to stop anyone. > [@Kable](#): > > Most .380 are put in polymer pocket pistols that are too light and with too small a grip to be fired with any ease. It would be particularly hard for a weaker woman to shoot. A 9mm full size or compact would likely be easier to shoot with less felt recoil, though not quite as easy to carry. My girlfriend likes shooter her 9mm glock and especially her 1911. I let her try my .380 Bodyguard and she fired one mag and declined to shoot it anymore. I found it unpleasant myself, but it is handy. Then they should buy one of the .380s that are made of metal rather than polymer. You can’t do anything about the flip but you can reduce recoil. A .380 has very little to begin with. (full disclosure, my carry pistol is a glock 27, it took some getting used to). > [@Kable](#): > > The problem with a .22, besides stopping power, is that the rimfire cartridges are generally less reliable than a centerfire. That and they are so dirty that they get gunked up real fast. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Step 1: Purchase gun safe. > Step 2: Establish protocol that the gun must always be in one of the following five conditions: (a) locked in safe; (b) in hand on way to being locked in safe; (c) in hand on way to holster (itself on your person); (d) in holster and on your person; (e) in hand for use or cleaning. > Step 3: Follow protocol invariantly. AKA “don’t just leave your gun lying around” > [@pkbites](#): > > Using fresh name brand .22 ammo greatly increases the reliability too. I’m not saying I would enjoy getting shot with a 22lr but there are a lot of risks I would take against someone firing a 22lr that I wouldn’t take with someone carrying a .380 or bigger. > [@](#): > > I personally carry a baby Glock for CCW, either a 26 9mm or a 27 .40 cal. While not the smallest, using a Clipdraw, a pocket holster, or an ankle holster it’s more than concealable and handles the larger calibers just fine. But someone with smaller hands may have a problem with it’s grip. IMO, the glock 27 is almost made for carrying on your waist with the short grip. I have several conversion barrels for it and I have had great luck with a lone wolf ported 23 barrel in the 27. The extra length gives it more firepower and reduces and the porting reduces recoil and the gun doesn’t flip nearly as much. It adds a little weight but it does not affect the draw or concealability in an inside waistband holster. Its basically a 23 with a 27’s grip. YMMV. > [@DSeid](#): > > Oy. > > 100K defensive gun uses, if accurate, in no way translates into 100K deaths prevented. Or even a single death prevented. You cannot know. Scaring off someone thought to be trespassing counts. Responding to someone demanding your iPod or he’ll beat up up counts. It does not mean the other person had a gun or posed a threat to life. No way to know how often and some studies claim very rarely. How many in households? > > Overall the risk of a child being killed by an intruder into the home is near zero. Most violent home invasions are by known individuals and serious injury is rare. Overall the rate for[all fatal assault](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5307a1.htm#tab2) in children is 3.9/100K for kids 0 to 4 and under 1/100K for kids 5 to 14. > > Let’s be real, both numbers are very tiny. The issue is knowing the particular person in question. And we also compared defensive gun use to gun injuries. But yeah, some people should carry guns just like some people shouldn’t drive. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/42 "2013-06-25T04:01:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Then they should buy one of the .380s that are made of metal rather than polymer. Thats adding weight and size and defeating two of the purposes of having a mousegun. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > IMO, the glock 27 is almost made for carrying on your waist with the short grip. I’ve never had any trouble carrying/firing my baby Glocks regardless of how I’ve carried them (in a pocket, hip holster, ankle holster, “Mexican style”, etc.). When I want a bigger grip I use an X-Grip that slips over a high cap mag and viola. A bigger grip. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/43 "2013-06-25T04:27:02Z")
I really don’t think I have to list my “pro-gun” cred for purposes of this thread. That noted, I do a fair amount of work as a\* Guardian ad Litem\* (essentially a court appointed child advocate) in custody cases. As such, I always inquire about the presence of guns in a home with children, and the measures taken to secure those weapons. It obviously is not the only factor I consider, but it is something that carries considerable weight. I can, and have, imposed various requirements on securing weapons while children are present. My judges will back me 100% on that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/44 "2013-06-25T06:20:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Thats adding weight and size and defeating two of the purposes of having a mousegun. It doesn’t have to add size. The weight will help with the kick. > [@](#): > > I’ve never had any trouble carrying/firing my baby Glocks regardless of how I’ve carried them (in a pocket, hip holster, ankle holster, “Mexican style”, etc.). > When I want a bigger grip I use an X-Grip that slips over a high cap mag and viola. A bigger grip. Yeah I use those magazine sleeves too when I go to the range and use larger mags. I guess I just find waist holsters very convenient, accessible, unobtrusive and won’t burn by dick when I put it back after rapid firing a 30 round mag. YMMV 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/45 "2013-06-25T06:23:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I really don’t think I have to list my “pro-gun” cred for purposes of this thread. > > That noted, I do a fair amount of work as a\* Guardian ad Litem\* (essentially a court appointed child advocate) in custody cases. As such, I always inquire about the presence of guns in a home with children, and the measures taken to secure those weapons. It obviously is not the only factor I consider, but it is something that carries considerable weight. I can, and have, imposed various requirements on securing weapons while children are present. My judges will back me 100% on that. I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you but does a home with a gun safe get penalized for having guns in the home? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/46 "2013-06-25T06:41:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you but does a home with a gun safe get penalized for having guns in the home? Not by me. As long as I am satisfied that the weapons are secured, it’s a non-factor. Unsecured weapons are a problem, and that’s when I’ll demand appropriate safety measures. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/47 "2013-06-25T22:16:40Z")
[quote=“Damuri\_Ajashi, post:41, topic:661382”] > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer > Step 1: Purchase gun safe. > Step 2: Establish protocol that the gun must always be in one of the following five conditions: (a) locked in safe; (b) in hand on way to being locked in safe; (c) in hand on way to holster (itself on your person); (d) in holster and on your person; (e) in hand for use or cleaning. > Step 3: Follow protocol invariantly. > AKA “don’t just leave your gun lying around” Not quite. A lot of people will take “don’t leave your gun lying around” to mean “it’s okay to place it in a shoebox on a shelf too high for the kids to reach.” ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/48 "2013-06-26T12:43:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Step 1: Purchase gun safe. > Step 2: Establish protocol that the gun must always be in one of the following five conditions: (a) locked in safe; (b) in hand on way to being locked in safe; (c) in hand on way to holster (itself on your person); (d) in holster and on your person; (e) in hand for use or cleaning. > Step 3: Follow protocol invariantly. I agree with you, but I can see her not locking it up. I know lots of people who don’t lock their guns; hell I don’t lock mine, but I neither have pistols nor any small children (or any children) who ever come to the house. If Daddy is confident Grandma will do all this it might be OK. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/49 "2013-06-26T20:37:59Z")
What baffles me more than virtually anything in this world is why anyone would buy/own/possess a gun and not secure it when not in use. Even if you care for nothing in the world, guns cost money, and you don’t leave $400 sitting on the coffe table do you? And don’t tell you leave your Ipad sitting there, and it’s the same thing. Ipad’s can’t be used to harm anyone when they go missing. Many children are curious about guns, and most are uneducated about them. Uneducated children and loose guns are a bad combination. There are myriad reasons why a gun should never be left unlocked or unattended, and there are so many easy ways to secure them it’s ridiculous. I am a huge fan of [Gunvault](http://www.gunvault.com/)safes, but there are many like them. Any home where children or strangers may visit should have at least one. Swipe a finger, the door opens. Who can argue that it’s too much trouble or too slow? No one with more than a 83 IQ. She doesn’t want to spend the money? Fine. There are many that can be[had for less](http://www.amazon.com/HOMAK-HS10036683-Electronic-Access-Pistol/dp/B000MNN8DG/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1372278543&sr=1-2). $40 still too much? How about free? I promise you if you call your local police or sheriff, [they’ll give you a cable lock for free.](http://nssf.org/safety/gunlocks/) If they’re out, I’ll send her one. I commend your mom for taking some responsibility for protecting herself, but she can’t half-ass owning a pistol, especially around teens. Who, by the way, should know better at this point to NOT TOUCH A GUN. Teach them, take the mystery away, and they’ll be safer around guns for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/50 "2013-06-26T21:36:57Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > What baffles me more than virtually anything in this world is why anyone would buy/own/possess a gun and not secure it when not in use. I have no children, nor do any children visit my home. If I owned any guns, I would likely keep at least one loaded and ready for immediate use for the purpose of home defense. I might display others in an antique hand made gun cabinet that’s been in my family for generations. if my family had such a thing. Or any guns. Which we probably don’t. Or if we did, we probably lost them in simultaneous tragic boating accidents in the fall of 2008. We may consider purchasing one or more firearms in the fall of 2016. But probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/51 "2013-06-26T21:40:44Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I have no children, nor do any children visit my home. If I owned any guns, I would likely keep at least one loaded and ready for immediate use for the purpose of home defense. I might display others in an antique hand made gun cabinet that’s been in my family for generations. if my family had such a thing. Or any guns. Which we probably don’t. Or if we did, we probably lost them in simultaneous tragic boating accidents in the fall of 2008. We may consider purchasing one or more firearms in the fall of 2016. But probably not. In other words, you’re ADMITTING that, when the zombie apocalypse begins, you’ll be helpless and may be written off? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/52 "2013-06-27T05:05:48Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > If I owned any guns, I would likely keep at least one loaded and ready for immediate use for the purpose of home defense. I am the owner of a successful gun dealership, so of course I personally own numerous guns, and, yes, many ready for home defense. Unless I am sleeping or consuming more than my share of ethanol, I have at least one on my person. May “Gwad” [fate/history/etc] never put me, you, or anyone else the situation to have to use lethal force to survive. But if not armed I can be armed in 5 seconds or less. But a kid or a burglar could not gain access to any of my guns. My point is, a gun can be “secured” yet also be ready to rock-n-roll by it’s rightful owner and no one else! ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/53 "2013-06-27T19:09:20Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I am the owner of a successful gun dealership, so of course I personally own numerous guns, and, yes, many ready for home defense. > > Unless I am sleeping or consuming more than my share of ethanol, I have at least one on my person. May “Gwad” [fate/history/etc] never put me, you, or anyone else the situation to have to use lethal force to survive. But if not armed I can be armed in 5 seconds or less. But a kid or a burglar could not gain access to any of my guns. > > My point is, a gun can be “secured” yet also be ready to rock-n-roll by it’s rightful owner and no one else! _ **You** _, sir, may date my daughter. She’ll be 30 in 15 years…😃 ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/54 "2013-06-27T21:54:39Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > _ **You** _, sir, may date my daughter. > > She’ll be 30 in 15 years…😃 So she’s only 2 years older than my Granddaughter? Oy! ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/55 "2013-06-28T13:31:34Z")
I haven’t read the responses to the OP, so forgive me if I’m rehashing opinions. Is a firearm in a home with young children safe or dangerous? Answer, it depends, it depends solely on the adults in control of the firearms. We have five children in our home, ages ranging from 9 to 14. We also have five rifles and two pistols in the house. All of our firearms are kept in a locked gun cabinet and all are stored unloaded with trigger locks for extra security. I would like to keep one pistol in the nightstand for protection in case of a rare home invasion/break-in. However, with young children I have made the decision to forgo the ability to quickly grab my firearm in the interest of piece of mind. However, we have good locks and the huge dogs, the dogs will alert me to an intruder and if necessary I’ll get a firearm. Also, all my children have been target shooting with me and my wife, all the children have had to sit through a safety lecture by me concerning the safe handling of firearms. And I quiz them all the time about safe firearm handling practices. The boys love to target shoot, the girls can take it or leave it. But I am confident in the safety methods we have in place, I trust my children and I know that they are well versed and understand safe gun practices. Shooting is something the whole family enjoys. Children must be taught from an early age about firearms because even if you don’t own one, I bet one of their friends does. I don’t want my children either so scared or so ignorant of firearms that they won’t have a clue how to act around one. Ifyou’rethe adult it is 100% your responsibility to ensure your guns are safely stored and not able to be gotten to by unauthorized persons. That’s called being a responsible gun owner. For irresponsible gun owner look at Adam Lanza’s mother, she knew her son had mental issues, but didn’t secure her weapons. If you own a gun, be safe, smart and you won’t ever have to be on the receiving end of a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382/56 "2013-06-30T18:58:01Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Your daughters are 9 and 13? If they don’t know by those ages how dangerous guns are and not to even touch them unless an adult is supervising, then you need to make up on some negligent parenting. Word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-homes-with-children-protection-or-danger/661382.md?page=2)