# Guns in the home - where do you stand? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 7, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343 "2010-12-07T22:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/101 "2010-12-10T18:39:01Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > For instance, Illinois residents must believe that they or another person in the house is in imminent risk of death or severe bodily harm. Defense of property is not sufficient. (Surprise a burglar and shoot, and you’ve broken the law.) In Texas, we are not subject to that astonishing restriction. As I stated earlier, the thief is entirely in charge of determining whether his life is worth my “stuff”. His right to continued existence remains at my property line, right where he dropped it. It seems that Texas in large part, agrees with me. I am not a lawyer, but the information below seems pretty straightforward. I agree mostly, but I think the “nighttime” reference is too restrictive of the property owner. The following is a quoted from the Tx Penal code Ch 9, on using deadly force: (bolding mine) PC §9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE’S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property. (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and: (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor. PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. **A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property**: TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS PC §9.51. 47 (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and (3) he reasonably believes that: (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/102 "2010-12-10T18:48:30Z")
Back to answering the OP: As some have mentioned, there are some gaps in the poll. I’ve never had a _successful_ illegal entry into our home, but there’ve been attempts made at least twice, once whilst my home was occupied by humans, and once when only the dogs were home. There may have been others - I wouldn’t be surprised, considering - but there’s no evidence of such. Which is why I _have_ dogs - They stop things before they go too far. In one case, I met the loud, insistent, drunken idiot trying to bust my door down with a firearm ready, but not prominently displayed - Fortunately, I was able to turn the drunk around with words, and didn’t need to use any force. Of course, I’m a big guy, and was (at that time) intimidatingly fit. But I had ‘Plan B’ ready, just in case. In the other case, no one was home but the (very active, and rather large) dogs, and the entry stopped at a cut window screen. I’ve mostly lived in suburbs, but have spent times in big cities, and in small towns, and even completely rural. Some neighborhoods were good, some sucked, most were some intermediate level of ‘safe.’ I have firearms. Multiple. And dogs. And other weapons - My most serious weapon is my mind. My second most serious weapon is my wife’s mind. Or maybe I have that backwards. Just don’t mess with the Missus, and we’ll never need to know. My dogs are my alarm system, and a deterrent. One of them would most _certainly_ go after an intruder. It isn’t the one you’d expect. A canine pump-fake, if you will. 😛 However, once they alert, the dogs fall in _behind_ me. Or my wife. And either one of us is ready, capable, and willing to use deadly force, and we both know how and when to so do. Don’t rightly know what the dogs do when no one is home, but whatever they do, it’s been effective at least once. I mostly target shoot, but the ability to exercise a the full spectrum of force is important. Never _needed_ to use it, but as noted above, I’ve been in a situation where it quite plausibly could have been needed. In my current neighborhood, it’s a possibility, but not a big one. Most likely, the dogs will serve our needs plenty fine. Another reason I like having my firearms is that bit about not trusting the government - 'Cause I don’t. Not really the government’s _fault_ - concentrating power is what governments _do_. They can’t help it. I don’t _think_ I’ll need to gather up arms against an oppressive government, but I’d like the option open, in the unlikely chance it ever becomes needful to remind them that there are limits. I have minor children. They are more precious to me than my life, my wife’s life, or anything anyone might offer me. They _will_ be defended first. And frankly, I anticipate that should it come to it, my wife will be leading the charge. I’m aggressive and strong, but she’s a she-wolf when it comes to the kids. One of the ways I defend my children is making sure they _understand_ firearms. Firearms are tools, very powerful ones, and must be treated with respect and understanding. They see them, they handle them under supervision, they get random pop-quizzes on proper conduct and handling, and the weapons are demystified to them. PLUS I have a heavy, secure safe - not a pancea, but another step towards securing the weapons and defending the kids: Demystify, train, and secure. No weapon is out in the house unless one of us parents are _right_ there with it and in control of it, or directly supervising. And yeah, that’s pretty much how _I_ was brought up. Worked on me, worked on my father, and works on my kids too. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/103 "2010-12-10T18:51:21Z")
Edit: Sorry, this was in response to **pullin** : Yes, I was using Illinois as an illustration of one of the variations between states. It seems that a few states may require you to retreat first if possible, for instance, so it would be advised for people to read up on state and local laws before assuming that they don’t have to retreat, they can shoot in defense of property, they can shoot outside their house, etc. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/104 "2010-12-10T20:08:53Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Edit: Sorry, this was in response to **pullin** : Yes, I was using Illinois as an illustration of one of the variations between states. It seems that a few states may require you to retreat first if possible, for instance, so it would be advised for people to read up on state and local laws before assuming that they don’t have to retreat, they can shoot in defense of property, they can shoot outside their house, etc. Agreed. I spent some time with an attorney getting a real-life interpretation of those laws. Apologies for what may have seemed an attempt to characterize your state’s approach based on an small excerpt of the law. Your advice is good. …and as long as I’m at it; Apologies to the OP. This thread seems to have strayed far from the original intent and questions. In retrospect, I’ve been guilty of helping with the derailment. Emotional issue, and all that. The distaff side of the household just sashayed past and invited me to join her in the jacuzzi. Perhaps I should step away from the keyboard and relax a little. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/105 "2010-12-11T00:43:27Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Agreed. I spent some time with an attorney getting a real-life interpretation of those laws. Apologies for what may have seemed an attempt to characterize your state’s approach based on an small excerpt of the law. Your advice is good. > > …and as long as I’m at it; Apologies to the OP. This thread seems to have strayed far from the original intent and questions. In retrospect, I’ve been guilty of helping with the derailment. Emotional issue, and all that. The distaff side of the household just sashayed past and invited me to join her in the jacuzzi. Perhaps I should step away from the keyboard and relax a little. 😉 Au contraire, mon ami. For the most part, I am getting just what I had hoped for, which is to hear how people feel about having guns in their homes, and why. There have been very interesting and persuasive remarks in this thread on both “sides” (if I may put it that way) of the gun ownership line. And these questions of the law relative to using a gun in this way are, I think, certainly relevant to the overall discussion. I wonder if anyone has been jogged to re-think their position about guns in the home, from reading this thread. I have. Doesn’t mean I will necessarily do anything differently, but I’m not ruling anything out. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/106 "2010-12-11T01:33:24Z")
> [@Cowgirl\_Jules](#): > > It wasn’t an armed robber. It was a drug-crazed naked woman, Well if I had my choice of intruder… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343/107 "2010-12-11T14:47:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > “Compromising” with the antis never accomplished anything but nibbling our rights away, so thank _you_ and the horse you rode in on. It wasn’t until we became militant (thanks largely to Clinton’s AWB) and started pushing back that we did anything but lose. I’ve been part of this game since the 70’s and I’ve seen what wins and what loses. Making nice means take somebody uncommitted to the range and let them burn some of your ammo. The antis are a lost cause and making nice with them is, at best, pointless. Confrontation with them, every step of the way, is what has made nearly nationwide CCW a reality, prevented the reinstitution of the AWB, and numerous other victories. You be genteel if you want, I’ll concentrate on getting back more of what we lost in previous eras. This is America! Americans own guns. There are plenty of OTHER countries in the world where those other governments do not let non-criminals own or carry guns. The ""anti’s have a lot of countries to choose from to move to if they want to be in a country where all honest non-violent law abiding citizens are disarmed and defenseless. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-in-the-home-where-do-you-stand/563343.md?page=5)