# Guns: What's the big deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145 "2009-02-09T23:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/101 "2009-02-12T00:51:00Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > He said reduce, not eliminate. Do you seriously think that there’s _nobody_ who has refrained from crime due to the threat of arrest and prison? Works for people worried about getting their butts shot as well… ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/102 "2009-02-12T01:01:04Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > Ditto. Automobiles are terribly dangerous, but there isn’t the irrational fear of them as I see sometimes with guns. Let’s see: to operate a car you need a license and insurance, when you buy a car you need a transfer of license. in many states you need to have your car inspected on a regular basis to show that it is safe, cars are required to have locks and safety equipment like seat belts. Nope, cars aren’t regulated at all to make sure they are safely operated. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/103 "2009-02-12T01:17:12Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m serious. I’m open to persuasion as to why my thoughts are erroneous though. The cure is a hundred times worse than the disease. Do you really want to live in a police state? Is this what passes for acceptable governmental behavior in the UK? Are your children’s balls removed at birth, or is there some sort of ritual castration you guys go through later in life? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/104 "2009-02-12T02:56:54Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The cure is a hundred times worse than the disease. Do you really want to live in a police state? Is this what passes for acceptable governmental behavior in the UK? This. Are you really being serious, **ivan**? Your “suggestions” were so far beyond the pale for anything remotely resembling acceptable and just government that I was _sure_ you were being heavily ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/105 "2009-02-12T03:32:19Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Let’s see: to operate a car you need a license and insurance, when you buy a car you need a transfer of license. in many states you need to have your car inspected on a regular basis to show that it is safe, cars are required to have locks and safety equipment like seat belts. > > Nope, cars aren’t regulated at all to make sure they are safely operated. Only if you want to operate them on public roads. A drivers license is analogous to a concealed carry permit. Hasn’t this been covered? Or was that in another hijacked thread? ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/106 "2009-02-12T03:36:51Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Let’s see: to operate a car you need a license and insurance, when you buy a car you need a transfer of license. in many states you need to have your car inspected on a regular basis to show that it is safe, cars are required to have locks and safety equipment like seat belts. > > Nope, cars aren’t regulated at all to make sure they are safely operated. Misrepresentation. He did not say cars were unregulated; he said there is not an irrational fear of cars. There are twice as many car-related deaths in the US as there are gun related deaths, so why are people scared of guns and not cars? –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/107 "2009-02-12T03:49:49Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Takes an 11 year old with an ice pick less than that. He can do 3 of them in about 5 minutes. > > [Video is available here](http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/the-lockdown-gun-locks-unsafe-at-any-caliber/) > > They don’t work. Wow. We need better trigger locks! Some clever inventor could make a killing (heh)! ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/108 "2009-02-12T05:43:04Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > Misrepresentation. He did not say cars were unregulated; he said there is not an irrational fear of cars. > > There are twice as many car-related deaths in the US as there are gun related deaths, so why are people scared of guns and not cars? > > –FCOD That’s a silly question. Society regulates all sorts of things that are potentially dangerous. Among the things we regulate is food safety, does that mean we have an irrational fear of food? Looking at all the obese people, I don’t think so. If you remove the lunatic fringe that want’s no regulations of any kinds on guns and the equally loony fringe that wants to confiscate guns, you have the large number of people like myself that want to have reasonable precautions on guns like we have on other things. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/109 "2009-02-12T05:45:34Z")
> [@Bobotheoptimist](#): > > Only if you want to operate them on public roads. A drivers license is analogous to a concealed carry permit. A terrible analogy. The better analogy is driving a car on your own property. > [@](#): > > Hasn’t this been covered? Or was that in another hijacked thread? I hate it when gun advocates hijack threads with car analogies. I wonder why _Jimmy Joe_ did that? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/110 "2009-02-12T08:10:08Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Wow. We need better trigger locks! Some clever inventor could make a killing (heh)! I like the way you think. I propose the distribution of seven-foot tall tracked, armoured, computer-controlled trigger locks. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/111 "2009-02-12T13:52:40Z")
> [@](#): > > **E-Sabbath** said: > Guys, look, it’s just ivan shifting the blame from criminals to citizens again. ‘If you have nothing to fear, you shouldn’t object’. Apparently, ivan is a big fan of the general idea that if you don’t explicitly hunt down all potential criminals and/or defend against all criminal situations whatever happens is your own fault.’ That’s always his argument. The general theme with **ivan** is that law-abiding citizens deserve no privacy from burglars such as himself, or from the government who will guarantee that they are unarmed. In **ivan’s** world, everyone’s home should be breached without their consent, and it’s their fault for failing to do enough to keep the invaders out. > [@](#): > > **Dan Blather** said: > Let’s see: to operate a car you need a license and insurance, when you buy a car you need a transfer of license. in many states you need to have your car inspected on a regular basis to show that it is safe, cars are required to have locks and safety equipment like seat belts. Only to drive them on public streets. You can drive an unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured and uninspected car around your own property all day long without a driver’s license and you have not broken any laws. I have a license to carry my firearm conceealed when I am outside my house. THat’s quite enough licensing. I’m also not immune to lawsuit if I use my firearm in public in a negligent manner and injure or kill someone. I will likely also go to prison for it. Of course, if I want to shoot tin cans on my own property, I’m well within my rights to do so as there is no law (where I live) against doing so. I am only required to make sure that none of my shots crosses my property line. > [@](#): > > **I Love Me, Vol. I** said: > Wow. We need better trigger locks! Some clever inventor could make a killing (heh)! Even with the lock on, in many cases you can still load the gun and pull the trigger lock to fire. Trigger locks are another in a long line of feel good bullshit that accomplishes nothing but giving the impression that somewhere, some politician did something. The only thing they’re effective at is propping up a re-election campaign. > [@](#): > > **Dan Blather** said: > The better analogy is driving a car on your own property. Which you do not need a license, registration or car insurance to do, as has now been pointed out to you no less than three times. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/112 "2009-02-12T13:56:56Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > That’s a silly question. Society regulates all sorts of things that are potentially dangerous. Among the things we regulate is food safety, does that mean we have an irrational fear of food? Looking at all the obese people, I don’t think so. > > If you remove the lunatic fringe that want’s no regulations of any kinds on guns and the equally loony fringe that wants to confiscate guns, you have the large number of people like myself that want to have reasonable precautions on guns like we have on other things. You’re still missing the point, which is that a gun sitting by itself is no more dangerous than a car sitting by itself, yet many people would fear the gun and not the car. It has nothing to do with what is regulated, it has to do with the irrational fear of guns that many people hold. –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/113 "2009-02-12T14:22:51Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > You’re still missing the point, which is that a gun sitting by itself is no more dangerous than a car sitting by itself, yet many people would fear the gun and not the car. It has nothing to do with what is regulated, it has to do with the irrational fear of guns that many people hold. > > –FCOD It’s NOT a fear of guns - it’s a fear of what can be done with them when they get into the wrong hands… which happens far too often for a lot of peoples liking. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/114 "2009-02-12T14:23:27Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It’s NOT a fear of guns - it’s a fear of what can be done with them when they get into the wrong hands… which happens far too often for a lot of peoples liking. But more people die from misuse of cars than they do from misuse of guns… –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/115 "2009-02-12T15:07:11Z")
Or a fear of what can be done with them when they get into the right hands. Many people, like ivan here, seem not to trust themselves at all, and would rather have ‘the police’ be their own ethics. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/116 "2009-02-12T15:13:21Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > But more people die from misuse of cars than they do from misuse of guns… > > –FCOD Perhaps when vehicular homicide is on a par with that carried out with guns we can consider them more carefully? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/117 "2009-02-12T15:15:10Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Or a fear of what can be done with them when they get into the right hands. Many people, like ivan here, seem not to trust themselves at all, and would rather have ‘the police’ be their own ethics. Oh, I trust me with a gun alright. It’s you and everyone else I’m wary of. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/118 "2009-02-12T15:15:27Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It’s NOT a fear of guns - it’s a fear of what can be done with them when they get into the wrong hands… which happens far too often for a lot of peoples liking. Guns will either be available to everyone, criminals and honest people alike, as in the US today, or they will be available to no one, as in the UK. So just come out and say you’d like to ban guns. That’s the only way to stop gun violence, and as I said above, that cure is worse than the disease. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/119 "2009-02-12T15:21:37Z")
If here in the UK we are suffering from a ‘disease’, why is it I don’t feel stricken and defenceless? Gun and knife crime is reportedly on the increase over here, but I don’t feel the need to be tooled up at all times! ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/120 "2009-02-12T15:24:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Perhaps when vehicular homicide is on a par with that carried out with guns we can consider them more carefully? It’s already been proved that gun control laws don’t stop criminals from getting guns. (By the way, 28 gun crimes are committed in the U.K. each day. [Cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html).) So, what are you trying to control? You can’t seriously be trying to control crimes committed with firearms, because gun control laws are proven ineffective to do so. If you trying to cut down on accidental firearm deaths, you should tackle accidental auto deaths first, since there are twice as many. –FCOD [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145.md?page=7)