# Guns: What's the big deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145 "2009-02-09T23:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/121 "2009-02-12T15:25:54Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If here in the UK we are suffering from a ‘disease’, why is it I don’t feel stricken and defenceless? Gun and knife crime is reportedly on the increase over here, but I don’t feel the need to be tooled up at all times! Until someone breaks into your house and kills you because you walk in on them stealing your TV and they shoot you. –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/122 "2009-02-12T15:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **ivan astikov** said: > It’s NOT a fear of guns - it’s a fear of what can be done with them when they get into the wrong hands… which happens far too often for a lot of peoples liking. I find it hard to believe that someone who made his living by entering people’s homes and absconding with their possessions has a reason other than fear of being shot for thinking that law abiding home owners shouldn’t own guns. Having the police search everyone’s house and remove all their guns would decrease the risk to someone in that so-called profession. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/123 "2009-02-12T15:52:41Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > It’s already been proved that gun control laws don’t stop criminals from getting guns. (By the way, 28 gun crimes are committed in the U.K. each day. [Cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html).) How does this compare to countries with less strict gun control laws (e.g. the USA)? I don’t think anyone expects gun control laws to completely eliminate gun crime. But is it lower than it would be without the gun control laws? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/124 "2009-02-12T15:56:41Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > How does this compare to countries with less strict gun control laws (e.g. the USA)? > > I don’t think anyone expects gun control laws to completely eliminate gun crime. But is it lower than it would be without the gun control laws? Unless its ALOT lower I’ll take freedom any day. There are plenty of “freedoms” we have, that if you want to get technical about it probably cost society more than if they weren’t allowed or were more restricted. Freedom costs. ---
**Author:** ![cedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/125 "2009-02-12T16:01:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Wrong; making guns harder for the general public to get makes it harder for criminals to get them. _snip_ I’ve heard lots of statements like this one that really prove that guns are not the problem at all. The problem is mental illness. Despite studies (and common sense) that prove time and again that there is NO link between lawabiding gun owners and gun related crimes, there are people who still believe this kind of thinking. They can never prove the claims they make but you’d never convince them in a million years that they are full of crap. They retreat into repeating their nonsense over and over and over again. They think that _because they believe it to be true_ it must really be so. Yes, they really do think that the homeowner who goes to his local gun shop and buys a shotgun to get rid of the groundhogs that are destroying his creek bank is standing side by side with the guy who came to the same shop to get something to wipe out his former co-workers. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/126 "2009-02-12T16:10:25Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I don’t think anyone expects gun control laws to completely eliminate gun crime. But is it lower than it would be without the gun control laws? [Nope.](http://blog.joehuffman.org/2009/01/16/BradyScoreVersusMurdersCommittedWithAFirearm.aspx) Statistics show that the states with more restrictive gun laws do not have fewer murders committed with firearms. So, again I ask…what is the point of gun control laws? –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/127 "2009-02-12T16:20:38Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > [Nope.](http://blog.joehuffman.org/2009/01/16/BradyScoreVersusMurdersCommittedWithAFirearm.aspx) Statistics show that the states with more restrictive gun laws do not have fewer murders committed with firearms. I already agreed that local gun control laws are pointless. What about _countries_ with more restrictive gun laws? Controlling the flow of guns across the border is not quite as daunting a task as at state lines. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/128 "2009-02-12T16:30:57Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I already agreed that local gun control laws are pointless. > > What about _countries_ with more restrictive gun laws? Controlling the flow of guns across the border is not quite as daunting a task as at state lines. Are you sure about that? Look at the swell job countries are doing quashing the illegal drug trade. Are there any countries with laws against drugs that do not have drug smugglers breaking those laws? There are cultural forces at work here that make comparisons between countries difficult. Americans, as a group, seem to like guns more than the English do as a group, for example. They do not have a history of relatively unrestricted and widespread private gun ownership as we do in the US. They almost certainly had lower rates of gun crime even when it was easier to own guns there than it is now. Saying that X worked in England or Y worked in Japan gives me no reason to believe that X or Y will work here. We aren’t English nor are we Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/129 "2009-02-12T16:39:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Are you sure about that? Look at the swell job countries are doing quashing the illegal drug trade. Are there any countries with laws against drugs that do not have drug smugglers breaking those laws? I didn’t say you can _stop_ all guns at the border. I just said controlling it at the border is at least slightly more effective than controlling it at state lines. > [@](#): > > Saying that X worked in England or Y worked in Japan gives me no reason to believe that X or Y will work here. You’re right. On the other hand, if some country did enact a nationwide gun control law and it did not result in _reduced_ crime, then I think that would prove your point. Is there such an example? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/130 "2009-02-12T16:45:20Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > You’re still missing the point, which is that a gun sitting by itself is no more dangerous than a car sitting by itself, yet many people would fear the gun and not the car. It has nothing to do with what is regulated, it has to do with the irrational fear of guns that many people hold. > > –FCOD Just repeating the same claim over and over does not make it true. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/131 "2009-02-12T16:51:25Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Just repeating the same claim over and over does not make it true. ??? What claim am I repeating? That people have an irrational fear of guns? –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/132 "2009-02-12T17:15:51Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > ??? > > What claim am I repeating? That people have an irrational fear of guns? > > –FCOD Yes. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/133 "2009-02-12T17:35:08Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Yes. Repeated or not, it is still true, as evidenced on this board on an almost daily basis. I’m not sure which is more disturbing, the irrational fear of guns, or that same fear of their owners. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/134 "2009-02-12T17:36:43Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Yes. LOL. I don’t have any statistics, because frankly I doubt anyone has done any experiments. You seriously don’t think that there is a fear of guns in this country? I will pay you $1000 if you go to any food court, take out a gun, put it on the table in front of you calmly, and nobody panics. –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/135 "2009-02-12T18:26:02Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Let’s see: to operate a car you need a license and insurance, when you buy a car you need a transfer of license. in many states you need to have your car inspected on a regular basis to show that it is safe, cars are required to have locks and safety equipment like seat belts. > > Nope, cars aren’t regulated at all to make sure they are safely operated. Um… you sure that was my post you read? Because I didn’t make any references to regulating anything, cars or guns. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/136 "2009-02-12T18:27:23Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > Misrepresentation. He did not say cars were unregulated; he said there is not an irrational fear of cars. > > There are twice as many car-related deaths in the US as there are gun related deaths, so why are people scared of guns and not cars? > > –FCOD Generally speaking, yes. That’s what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/137 "2009-02-12T18:48:55Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > A terrible analogy. The better analogy is driving a car on your own property. > > I hate it when gun advocates hijack threads with car analogies. I wonder why _Jimmy Joe_ did that? **DanBlather** , you’re so off the mark it’s… unsettling. I didn’t hijack. I was commenting on the “fear” of guns, which is pertinent to the ongoing content of this thread. Making a valid point against your argument isn’t the same as hijacking. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/138 "2009-02-12T19:23:45Z")
> [@FlyingCowOfDoom](#): > > LOL. > > I don’t have any statistics, because frankly I doubt anyone has done any experiments. You seriously don’t think that there is a fear of guns in this country? I will pay you $1000 if you go to any food court, take out a gun, put it on the table in front of you calmly, and nobody panics. > > –FCOD I’ll pay you $5000 if you go to a food court, park your car on a table, and no one panics. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/139 "2009-02-12T19:24:44Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I’ll pay you $5000 if you go to a food court, park your car on a table, and no one panics. Hahahahahaha. Now that was funny. –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145/140 "2009-02-12T19:30:12Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > Um… you sure that was my post you read? Because I didn’t make any references to regulating anything, cars or guns. For the sake of you gun advocates, I’ll t y p e r e a l l y s l o w l y. The case was made that people have an irrational fear of cars. By extension, I assume that your concern is that this fear will manifest itself in gun regulations you find onerous. Now if your presumption is true, then we would expect that cars, which you say people are not irrationally afraid of, would have less regulation than guns. But that is not the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guns-whats-the-big-deal/485145.md?page=8)