# Guvernatorial recalls in California--pretty frequent nowadays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591 "2021-08-13T12:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/21 "2021-08-15T15:36:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > We’d pretty much need to scrap the whole state constitution and write (and ratify) a new one _in toto_ . Surely there’s a process for amending the California state constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/22 "2021-08-15T16:26:38Z")
Not an attempt at humor, just a typo. I realized just now that the “b” and “v” key are next to each other and I firmly believe I fat-fingered the topic’s subject line. Tripler Sometimes I am prone to misspelings. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/23 "2021-08-15T17:02:35Z")
I got my sample ballot and voter information guide last week. Normally, a voter information guide in California has candidates’ statements in which the candidates briefly tell the voters why they should vote for them. This one only has a statement from Gavin Newsom explaining why he wants people to vote against the recall. There are no statements from any of the candidates who are on the second part of the ballot. The recall ballot has 46 candidates. The American Independent and Libertarian parties have endorsed candidates, but no other party has (including the Democratic and Republican parties). The recall process puts the incumbent party in a bind. If they endorse a candidate it makes it look like they’re endorsing the recall. The Democratic Party is telling people to vote against the recall, and not to vote for anyone in the second part of the ballot (where you vote for a candidate to replace Newsom should the recall succeed). IMO, this is a risky strategy. It almost guarantees a Republican win if the recall succeeds. There are a few Democrats on the ballot. I hadn’t heard of any of them until I got my sample ballot in the mail last week. One of them, Kevin Paffrath, is asking people to vote in favor of the recall. Some of them are single-issue candidates. One, John R. Drake, says he’s in favor of “market socialist economics.” The Republican party hasn’t endorse anyone, either. I’m sure this is because there’s no system for choosing a candidate for a recall: no primary, no party convention. There really isn’t time for one, and there’s nothing in the state constitution or law to support it (the state won’t hold a primary election just because a party wants one). There are 24 Republican candidates on the ballot. Most of them are people hardly anyone has heard of. Caitlyn Jenner is the first name on the ballot, although she seems not to be working very hard on the election. John Cox (the bear guy) is running TV ads. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/24 "2021-08-15T17:19:28Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > We’d pretty much need to scrap the whole state constitution and write (and ratify) a new one _in toto_ . > > Surely there’s a process for amending the California state constitution. You have no idea. Sorry, while that answer is certainly on point, it’s also kinda flippant and uninformative. We DO have such a process, a plebiscite which can be triggered by a constitutional convention, legislature-originated referral, or citizen initiative. The citizen initiative process is the worst, being very susceptible to abuse by special interests with plenty of money and often a willingness to appeal to people’s worst impulses. Back in 2010, my favorite commie rag did a write-up of five of the worst ones to date. Enjoy! > **[California's 5 Worst Ballot Initiatives – OC Weekly](https://www.ocweekly.com/californias-5-worst-ballot-initiatives-6467143/)** ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/25 "2021-08-15T17:53:21Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > The Republican party hasn’t endorse anyone, either. I’m sure this is because there’s no system for choosing a candidate for a recall: no primary, no party convention. No, it wasn’t a procedural barrier - it was a flat out [strategic move](https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/08/07/california-gop-wont-endorse-a-candidate-in-newsom-recall-1389718). They were about to, but decided not to potentially drive off internal partisans (and incidentally not give Newsom a face to focus on). Probably the smart move from the GOP’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/26 "2021-08-15T18:02:44Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I got my sample ballot and voter information guide last week. Normally, a voter information guide in California has candidates’ statements in which the candidates briefly tell the voters why they should vote for them. This one only has a statement from Gavin Newsom explaining why he wants people to vote against the recall. There are no statements from any of the candidates who are on the second part of the ballot. You should have received two documents, both confusingly labeled “voter information guide.” The one printed on flimsier paper (newsprint) contains the candidates’ statements on pp 11 - 27. They are a hoot. Maybe you got a defective copy? Here it is on line: [https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2021/pdf/complete-vig.pdf](https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2021/pdf/complete-vig.pdf) The Republicans and other tiny minority parties know that there is 0% chance of controlling the governorship in a general election for the foreseeable future. But the crazy recall rules in this state make it virtually certain that if the incumbent loses, the winner will receive only a vote plurality (and possibly a minuscule one at that), so this is the extremists’ best shot at getting someone in, or at least causing maximum discomfort to the Dems. The whole nutty system needs to be scrapped and replaced with a saner, ranked-choice recall mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/27 "2021-08-15T18:36:42Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Not an attempt at humor, just a typo. I realized just now that the “b” and “v” key are next to each other and I firmly believe I fat-fingered the topic’s subject line. > > Tripler > Sometimes I am prone to misspelings. Well, in Hebrew the letters can be identical except for the dot. So there’s that. [![](https://i.imgur.com/ohXIeK3.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/ohXIeK3.jpg) In Spanish the “b” and “v” sounds are sometimes interchangeable. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/28 "2021-08-15T18:49:48Z")
And “B” in Russian is pronounced ‘v’ so that “Vladimir” is spelled, “Владимир”. But that’s neither her nor there given the embarrasing typo in my OP. Tripler Большое спасибо! ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/29 "2021-08-15T19:34:27Z")
I hope I didn’t come off as flip as well – I genuinely have no idea regarding California constitutional processes. Here in Texas its relatively common to amend the state constitution, the current constitution has been amended 500 times since it was adopted in 1876. Amending just requires a majority in the state legislature followed by a statewide referendum. But it’s mostly boring stuff like bond issuances and creating special purpose districts. Possibly dumb question: is there a difference between an amendment and an initiative? Are all initiatives considered to be amendments to the California constitution? And can the constitution only be amended via initiative? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/30 "2021-08-15T20:04:19Z")
Initiatives are used both to amend the constitution and to pass laws (including bond issues and tax increases) in California. The state assembly can pass amendment legislation which must then be ratified by plebiscite. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/31 "2021-08-15T21:01:04Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > I firmly believe I fat-fingered the topic’s subject line. You should have blamed it on a conspiracy by discobot. It would have been easy to believe, because we all know discobot hates you. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/32 "2021-08-15T21:15:14Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > You should have blamed it on a conspiracy by discobot. It would have been easy to believe, because we all know discobot hates you. Oh, good point! I’d forgotten about discovot, and his evil ways. I’ll have to keep this in mind when that silicon-based Soviet scrapheap sullies up my next reply. Tripler Oooooooh, I hate that infernal ‘machine.’ 🤬 ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/33 "2021-08-15T21:17:02Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I got my sample ballot and voter information guide last week. Normally, a voter information guide in California has candidates’ statements in which the candidates briefly tell the voters why they should vote for them. Do you get those same information guides during the regular election cycles? Tripler How informative/useful do you find them? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/34 "2021-08-15T23:59:53Z")
Yes, we get them for every election. Whether they useful depends. I rely on them a fair bit for local elections such as school board or city council. They get very little, often zero, media coverage. I don’t use them for major races that do get extensive coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/35 "2021-08-16T00:34:18Z")
Y’know, it’s only just now sinking in to me just how bad this recall system is… If there’s a recall ballot with, say, six names on it, and 49% of the public thinks Mr. Incumbent is the best man for the job, 11% thinks Challenger A is best, and 8% each favor B, C, D, E, and F, then that means that… A beats Incumbent, 11 to 49? > [@Tripler](#): > > Oh, good point! I’d forgotten about discovot, and his evil ways. I’ll have to keep this in mind when that silicon-based Soviet scrapheap sullies up my next reply. You misspelled “Sobiet”. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/36 "2021-08-16T06:37:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If there’s a recall ballot with, say, six names on it, and 49% of the public thinks Mr. Incumbent is the best man for the job, 11% thinks Challenger A is best, and 8% each favor B, C, D, E, and F, then that means that… A beats Incumbent, 11 to 49? Yes, that’s exactly how it works. I think there is a plausible (federal) constitutional challenge to this, or at least there would be if I thought trusted the present judiciary. It’s perfectly fine to have an election system that requires a candidate to get more than a bare plurality to win, but singling out _one particular candidate_ (the incumbent) as the _only_ one who is prohibited from winning with a bare plurality is an equal protection violation (against the incumbent) and the voters who prefer that candidate probably have a completely valid claim under the one person-one vote doctrine too. The figleaf that these are technically separate questions is not very credible; one question can never appear without the other, and the second is completely contingent on the outcome of the first, so in reality they are a single election. There are recall systems that do not have this severe, unconstitutional flaw. In Wisconsin, for example, all of the candidates are on an equal footing, in a simple re-run of an ordinary election. In other systems, the incumbent is allowed to appear as a candidate to replace himself or herself. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/37 "2021-08-16T07:36:34Z")
Los Angeles Times has an editorial from a few days ago: > **[Editorial: Los Angeles Times recommendation: No on Newsom recall, Faulconer...](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-13/editorial-recall-the-governor-not-just-no-hell-no)** > > Our editorial board urges a NO vote on Question 1, whether to recall Gov. Gavin Newsom. On Question 2, we think former Mayor Kevin Faulconer of San Diego is the only responsible option. TL;DR: What it says above. Newsom isn’t perfect, but nothing to justify kicking him to the curb. OTOH, all the possible replacements are abominations. They suggest that Faulconer, Republican mayor of San Diego, is the only candidate who can be taken seriously, awful though he is. After briefly discussing the awfulness of the other leading candidates, they conclude: > [@](#): > > That leaves us with the least terrible of all these bad options: former San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer, a moderate Republican. He is perhaps the most conventional gubernatorial candidate and has the executive experience and mature temperament that other recall candidates lack. > > Faulconer is pro-vaccination. He acknowledges Biden’s victory. He supports abortion rights and strong efforts to mitigate climate change. He points to his work with a majority-Democratic City Council and his ability to get elected, twice, in a city where only a quarter of voters are registered Republicans as evidence of his bipartisan bona fides. > > [. . .] > > We fervently oppose the recall of Gavin Newsom, and we do not support Kevin Faulconer for governor. But for those who care about the stability of California, Faulconer is the least bad option in a recall field that ranges from the merely bad to the utterly catastrophic. Article includes links to other related articles too. ETA: Here’s one of them: > **[Editorial: Newsom could be replaced by someone with a tiny fraction of the...](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-02/editorial-if-newsom-is-recalled-he-could-be-replaced-by-someone-with-a-tiny-fraction-of-the-vote-thats-insane)** > > The 110-year-old recall rules are showing their age and need updating. Most Californians agree. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/38 "2021-08-16T10:05:46Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > 1. What are the motivating issues in recalling this Governor (Newsom)? Commercials keep mentioning high gas tax rates, and crime–is that it? The recall effort also got a big boost in November from a major own-goal by Newsom when he was caught ignoring his own state health covid guidelines as he masklessly celebrated a birthday party with people from 6 other households at an insanely upscale restaurant in wine country. It was not a good look. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/39 "2021-08-16T10:33:22Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > They suggest that Faulconer, Republican mayor of San Diego, is the only candidate who can be taken seriously, awful though he is. No one can say Faulconer isn’t an opportunist. He first slipped his way into a San Diego city council seat during a special election and then used that position to later slip his way into the San Diego mayor’s office during another special election. Let’s all pray he doesn’t go 3-for-3 with this recall election. Then again, he’s at like 6% in the polling I think. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591/40 "2021-08-16T11:45:00Z")
Actually, on thinking about it some more, the math is off in that specific example, since even the people who vote to keep Mr. Incumbent will also vote for someone among his challengers. But if they vote with the same proportionate breakdown as the folks voting to recall, then you’d still end up with A winning 22 to 49. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guvernatorial-recalls-in-california-pretty-frequent-nowadays/948591.md?page=3)