# Guys and creepiness **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716 "2013-03-01T12:42:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/201 "2013-03-03T12:36:46Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I don’t understand really what the argument even is at this point. I think it’s that women want guys to get over themselves and guys just want to be heard. I thought there were some rather sad stories being shared on this thread about how guys couldn’t act freely or are pigeonholed into acting gruff and aloof because the alternative of being warm and caring would make them seem pedophilic (and in certain cases rapey). > > I think in 100% of the cases shared, guys DID shrug it off, but it still felt like shit. Nobody confronted anyone yelling “I AM NOT A MOLESTER!” or anything like that. They recognize it for what it is and just wanted an opportunity to share. > > It was a bit tactless to come in and say “Oh boo hoo, you can’t give a kid a hug, or give directions to a lady at a bus stop. Try getting raped, and it’ll put shit into perspective. Shut up and carry on.” which made some feel antagonistic. Also didn’t care much for the condescension. Rape is a lose-lose topic for men and honestly I don’t think there are enough workshops or awareness groups in the world to change that. It what happens here on the SD when it comes to anything regarding male issues. There’s a small misandric contingent here , The that shows up all the time and gives us the "suck it up butter cup by being born male you’re inherently [privileged’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sAomeiTOKI) Putting that women’s studies degree to good use I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/202 "2013-03-03T12:57:03Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > It what happens here on the SD when it comes to anything regarding male issues. There’s a small misandric contingent here , The that shows up all the time and gives us the "suck it up butter cup by being born male you’re inherently [privileged’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sAomeiTOKI) > > Putting that women’s studies degree to good use I suppose. More useful in this case would be a course titled “Introduction to Irony.” ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/203 "2013-03-03T13:04:54Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Would it be insensitive of me to point out that it is seriously wuss for any man to be offended that a woman prepared to protect herself? Biology has shortchanged most of them in regards to defending themselves against men. A man would feel pity and a twinge of sadness that one would be so scared. A man wouldn’t whine about his feelings but consider her motivations. A man would consider the high percentage of women raped and grudgingly accept the cause. He would not consider his feeling of safety paramount over hers when the “weapon” she carried was non leathal and not used. > > A man also accomodates the fears of parents by placing himself in their position. It doesn’t mean he isn’t offended but rather that he understands his widdle feewings don’t compare to a molested child. And since I’m being so offensive, a man reaches out to stop a child being hurt no matter how any misunderstanding may hurt him. > > Now be butthurt and ignore everything a woman or parent has patiently tried to explain. I’m not leveling this at one but many males here. Guess what else a man doesn’t care about. Not everyone subscribes to your notions of masculinity…thankfully. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/204 "2013-03-03T13:12:14Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > And since I’m being so offensive, a man reaches out to stop a child being hurt no matter how any misunderstanding may hurt him. Yeah–I can’t comment on the rest of your post, but the idea expressed in this thread–“I got a mean look when I stopped a kid from being injured, so next time I’ll let the kid be injured”–is despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/205 "2013-03-03T13:21:01Z")
And if the man in question is accused of being a pedophile and his life is ruined that’s just too bad; he’s a man and therefore unworthy of sympathy under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/206 "2013-03-03T13:48:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And if the man in question is accused of being a pedophile and his life is ruined that’s just too bad; What’s even worse is that kid you tried to rescue turns out to be a werewolf and eats you. I mean, as long as we’re talking about things that never happen. People get accused of being pedophiles and their lives get ruined, sure. Sometimes that even happens when they’re not pedophiles. But it never ever happens because someone keeps a kid from falling at the grocery store. > [@](#): > > he’s a man and therefore unworthy of sympathy under any circumstances. “Waaah! Waaah!” Seriously, dude, nobody said that, and it’s beyond absurd to suffer from such bias as to misread people in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/207 "2013-03-03T13:52:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Waaah! Waaah!” > Seriously, dude, nobody said that, and it’s beyond absurd to suffer from such bias as to misread people in this respect. Oh, please. We’ve seen the standard “men are super privileged and therefore never have any right to complain or be offended” nonsense all over this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/208 "2013-03-03T13:55:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, please. We’ve seen the standard “men are super privileged and therefore never have any right to complain or be offended” nonsense all over this thread. What you’ve seen, and what’s been written, are very different things. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/209 "2013-03-03T14:12:50Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I see no problem with a woman discreetly brandishing a weapon, either. I don’t think I would be offended if she did either, because I would know that I had no intention of causing harm. The ridiculousness of this thread may be epitomized by this construction, “discreetly brandishing.” There is no such thing. “Brandishing” means, > [@](#): > > To wave or flourish (something, often a weapon) in a menacing, defiant, or excited way. If a weapon is brandished at you, you should be more than offended–you should be afraid, and prepared to defend yourself, or flee. Going back to the earlier bus stop scenario– > [@Lamia](#): > > Although you _intended_ to be helpful, it seems obvious to me that this woman feared that you were asking which bus she was looking for because you wanted to follow her. I just have to point out that this doesn’t make any sense. If **Sailboat** wished to follow her, he could have just waited until her bus arrived, and got on after her. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/210 "2013-03-03T14:19:59Z")
Taking this out of the sphere of gender politics, if that’s possible, let’s discuss fear. Neurologically/adrenally, fear and anger aren’t that different. Here is how I’ve managed a lot of angry people (including self-managing myself): “I know you’re angry and I won’t try to tell you that you aren’t angry for an honest reason. You are entitled to your anger. But that doesn’t mean your anger is entitled to do whatever it wants with you.” Angry people don’t want to hear Aristotle’s advice of (basically) it’s OK to be angry, but be angry at the right person, at the right time." But that’s what they need, for anger or fear. Go ahead and carry the pepper spray, or get a CC permit and carry a gun. Get off the couch and take a kick-boxing class. But manage your fear, too. When you walk into that parking garage, you’re like Germany after the Treaty of Versailles, and that pepper spray is wearing a toothbrush moustche ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/211 "2013-03-03T14:29:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I suspect you’re getting at the answer “from men.” Am I right? > > If so, this is essentially accurate and misleading and irrelevant. Blame **Der Trihs** for whipping that ill-fitting statistic out. > [@Ibanez](#): > > It what happens here on the SD when it comes to anything regarding male issues. There’s a small misandric contingent here , The that shows up all the time and gives us the "suck it up butter cup by being born male you’re inherently [privileged’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sAomeiTOKI) > > Putting that women’s studies degree to good use I suppose. Bikers and tattooed people have the same lament “A few bad seeds give us all a bad name”. Why isn’t this the case now? Why blame women for being wary of strange men? Doesn’t most of the fault here lie with law enforcement, which often offers self-defense courses to women? Or statisticians who routinely trot out numbers that demonstrate that males are far more likely to commit crimes? Surely the male criminals themselves ought to be maligned before wary women. Last week CNN posted an article entitled “Beyond vomiting, how to prevent rape” Check out this quote: “The issue really is about men, who we know commit most sexual assaults, and how do you stop men from doing it, not how do you coach women to cleverly get out of situations of harm,” said Jackson Katz, author of “The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help,” and co-founder of Mentors in Violence Prevention, a program that teaches strategies for preventing gender violence through the bystander approach.” Katz isn’t female. What’s his agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/212 "2013-03-03T14:40:26Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Check out this quote: “The issue really is about men, who we know commit most sexual assaults, and how do you stop men from doing it, not how do you coach women to cleverly get out of situations of harm,” said Jackson Katz, author of “The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help,” The first parts of the quote seems to lack the appropriate qualification of the title. The issue is _not_ “about men,” and we do not need to “stop men.” > [@Troppus](#): > > “A few bad seeds give us all a bad name”. Why isn’t this the case now? It is. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/213 "2013-03-03T15:19:40Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Last week CNN posted an article entitled “Beyond vomiting, how to prevent rape” Check out this quote: “The issue really is about men, who we know commit most sexual assaults, and how do you stop men from doing it, not how do you coach women to cleverly get out of situations of harm,” said Jackson Katz, author of “The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help,” and co-founder of Mentors in Violence Prevention, a program that teaches strategies for preventing gender violence through the bystander approach.” > > Katz isn’t female. What’s his agenda? The problem is that when an issue from _some_ men is expanded to include, _all_ men, ie: “All men are potentially rapists”. No, they really really aren’t and its offensive and off-base to say they are. I’ve been thinking about the general theme of this thread and I wonder if the issue isn’t that although the chances of a woman being sexually assaulted by a stranger or a man being accused of paedophilia are in reality extremely low the horrific consequences if it did actually happen mean that men and women are both overly paranoid with regards to the issue. The fear may have a different source but its not that different in actuality. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/214 "2013-03-03T15:45:23Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Bikers and tattooed people have the same lament “A few bad seeds give us all a bad name”. Why isn’t this the case now? I’m not sure what you’re saying. Are the pepper sprayers the bad apples or the rapists? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/215 "2013-03-03T15:49:56Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Not everyone subscribes to your notions of masculinity…thankfully. The overall post was pretty stupid and jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/216 "2013-03-03T15:54:05Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > The problem is that when an issue from _some_ men is expanded to include, _all_ men, ie: “All men are potentially rapists”. No, they really really aren’t and its offensive and off-base to say they are. If the phrase is intended as below, does it still bother you? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As for men being potential rapists: I read that differently from how a lot of guys in this thread seem to be reading it. They seem to be reading it as, “You, **Dorkness** , are one bad day away from RAPE!!!1!” but I don’t think that’s how it’s meant. I think it’s meant as, “You, **Dorkness** , aren’t a rapist–but there’s no way for me to know that just from looking at you, so until I know for sure, I’m going to acknowledge the potential danger in the situation.” Just as every card in a game of hearts is potentially the queen of spade until it’s revealed, every man is potentially a rapist until you get to know him better. Sucks, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/217 "2013-03-03T16:09:09Z")
I like your card analogy because the prevalent figure cited for rape is “1 in 4” but I think I can make it better. Instead of limiting it to a Hearts game where someone getting dealt the Queen of Spades is limited to the scope of a single 3 minute round of cards, instead you go through your entire life passing, interacting, befriending, loving, leaving, working for, have working for your, buy from, sell to, eat with, gym with, play with, sleep with, and socializing with hundreds if not thousands of cards all on a daily basis from the day you’re born to the day you die. Then somewhere in those thousands/millions of cumulative cards may or may not be the Queen of Spades. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/218 "2013-03-03T16:10:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The only data I can find shows that [men are a greater percentage of teachers than they were 10 years ago](http://www.menteach.org/resources/data_about_men_teachers). My wife is a primary school teacher, and in all four schools she has worked at, the only men there have been the caretakers and perhaps a cleaner or two. Certainly no men seem to want to teach at primary age. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/219 "2013-03-03T16:16:32Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > My wife is a primary school teacher, and in all four schools she has worked at, the only men there have been the caretakers and perhaps a cleaner or two. Certainly no men seem to want to teach at primary age. Anecdote time, then: at my school, there’s a male teacher at third, fourth, and fifth grade, at least two assistants who are men. Of my six years teaching, I’ve had a male teacher on my grade level for two of them. Or we could ignore the anecdotes and go for the previously-discussed data. **pancake** , I’m not sure what your point is with the continuation of the cards analogy. Do you disagree with my description of an alternate meaning for the phrase “all men are potential rapists”? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/220 "2013-03-03T16:20:35Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Of course any number is too many, but is the number really that high? High enough to let it worry you to such a degree? I don’t have the figures but I’m sure there are many other perils that befall hundreds, thousands of times more children than this phantom menace of sexual molestation, and yet that seems to be the thing every mother is most paranoid about. It is very strange how the media have turned this vanishingly improbable threat into such a prevalent fear. > ? First of all, it isn’t a “vanishingly improbable fear” My own child (5 year old girl) was touched inappropriately by another child at school a few weeks ago, and yes sexual abuse/molestation can come from peers. Any unwanted touching or violation of private areas is molestation. But I did not overreact, I did not go on some crusade to find out which little boy did it or confront his parents, I let the school handle it. But I am still uncomfortable about it and upset that my daughter had to experience that. This same little boy just recently tried to kiss another little boy in front of the whole class, so there is obviously more going on than curiosity with this child and it sucks as a parent I can do little to nothing about it other than teach my children what is right and how to report things that happen to them. My mother was sexually molested by a male babysitter when she was 6. I was touched and inappropriately fondled when I was 5 by my parent’s friend’s 12 yr old son. To say it is “improbable” is laughable. I guess my family has just drawn the short straw? Or maybe we are making it up? I also am more afraid as a mother of things like my children running out into the street and getting hit by a car, ingesting something poisonous or deadly, choking on something, getting injured while playing, etc. So no, MOST mothers are not in constant fear of their snowflakes being molested, but it does happen very frequently and it isn’t paranoia or improbable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716.md?page=12)