# Guys and creepiness **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716 "2013-03-01T12:42:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/361 "2013-03-05T22:46:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If their numbers of ~20K stranger rapes annually are accurate, then of course that’s a danger we’ll pay attention to. We spend a lot of time avoiding far less common risks: compare to, for example, the [2500 deaths in house fires annually](http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/fire-prevention/fires-factsheet.html). Are these deaths so vanishingly rare that we think it’s absurd to worry about them? Or do we expect people will take measures to avoid dangers even when they happen to a relatively small number of people? Yes, I’d say actually worrying about dying in a house fire is absurd. Do the sensible things you can do to avoid it, mainly installing smoke alarms, and then stop worrying. Do you think people should be checking every heating and electrical connection obsessively before they go to bed, and every time they get back to the house? Because that would be the equivalent to the level of caution you’re advocating about stranger rape. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/362 "2013-03-05T22:52:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, I’d say actually worrying about dying in a house fire is absurd. Do the sensible things you can do to avoid it, mainly installing smoke alarms, and then stop worrying. Isn’t me carrying pepper spray on my keys in my hand when I’m walking to my car late at night sensible? Me hiring armed, Ex Navy SEALS with scary guns and big mean dogs to escort me to my car each night after work would probably be overkill. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/363 "2013-03-05T23:18:22Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Isn’t me carrying pepper spray on my keys in my hand when I’m walking to my car late at night sensible? > > Me hiring armed, Ex Navy SEALS with scary guns and big mean dogs to escort me to my car each night after work would probably be overkill. And somewhere in between the 2 would be pulling it out and cowering in the corner of an elevator. Closer to the former, but not as effective as the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/364 "2013-03-05T23:30:01Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Isn’t me carrying pepper spray on my keys in my hand when I’m walking to my car late at night sensible? I’ll do my best to answer this honestly. If you are in fear of attack, and it makes you more comfortable to do so, then yes, I guess it’s sensible. However, I’d question a couple of things. The first is whether having that fear and acting on it still makes you less comfortable than realising how unlikely it is that something will happen, and only getting your keys or pepper spray in your hand if you perceive a specific threat. For me, if something is extremely unlikely, whilst I might prepare for it, I won’t have it regularly in my mind - or if I do, I’ll be aware it’s irrational. The second is that you having a weapon could turn a non-violent attempt at a street robbery - something that’s far more likely to happen than a stranger rape - into a violent confrontation, and one that, even with pepper spray, could leave you in a worse position than if you’d simply been robbed. Having the weapon in your hand, ready to use, could prevent you from making the safest decision in that circumstance. In short, my opinion is that, unless the walk to your car is unusually dangerous, carrying keys and pepper spray like that is not the best option. I will add that simply carrying them as you go about your business is far less likely to be perceived as a threat or insult than the situation in the elevator **Chimera** described, where it was overtly directed at him. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/365 "2013-03-06T00:30:23Z")
I wouldn’t bet on a conclusion, but somebody’s gettin pitted before this all said and done. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/366 "2013-03-06T00:36:31Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > And somewhere in between the 2 would be pulling it out and cowering in the corner of an elevator. Closer to the former, but not as effective as the latter. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the situation, but it sounds like the chick moved to the opposite side of the elevator from him, then held her pepperspray against her chest. I don’t get that she was pointing it at his eyes or at him in general, just that she was holding it. There have been plenty of times where I was going to go somewhere I felt less than safe (usually parking garages and lots, let’s be real) and I made sure my pepperspray on my key chain was in my hand, just in case I needed it. I also frequently step away from folks in elevators even under happy, safe circumstances because I don’t want to be all up on a stranger. I guess my point is: I’m imagining a woman in the opposite side of the elevator, closing her body off to a stranger, and holding her pepper spray in her hand. It sounds like some of you are imagining a woman cowering in the corner of the elevator, quivering and wide eyed like Scrat from the Pixar shorts, arm extended with pepper spray ready to spray him if he takes a step forward. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/367 "2013-03-06T01:29:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, I’d say actually worrying about dying in a house fire is absurd. Do the sensible things you can do to avoid it, mainly installing smoke alarms, and then stop worrying. At this point we’re quibbling over what it means to “worry.” Edit: > [@](#): > > Do you think people should be checking every heating and electrical connection obsessively before they go to bed, and every time they get back to the house? Because that would be the equivalent to the level of caution you’re advocating about stranger rape. This is nonsense, however. What level of caution do you think I’m advocating? You may wish to reread the thread before you answer. ---
**Author:** ![romadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@romadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romadea)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/368 "2013-03-06T05:53:25Z")
This thread has served as the inspiration for my latest invention. Imagine a world in which there is no over-reaction or under-reaction, just reaction. What you all need to buy, so that no man, woman, or child feels too little or too much fear in any given situation, is **romadea** ’s Distress Calibrator ™. It’s sort of like a pump for diabetics, except instead of insulin it releases fear hormones into your veins, in amounts that are determined according to an algorithm that takes into account the danger of your current situation - which necessarily includes your gender, age, race, BMI, the rates of sexual or violent crimes in your community, whether or not it’s dark out, how you and those around you are dressed, etc. - plus the demographics of the people around you, as well as their proximity to you, the shiftiness of their eyes and any sudden movements, and whether or not all or any of them is a Registered Sex Offender, stranger, child, familiar person, unfamiliar dog, close friend, lover, family member, member of the clergy, etc. Some of these variables you will have to type in, but the device comes with equipment that can collect most of the data itself, via…heat sensing. Yeah. And Google. It all fits in the palm of your hand, of course. Using statistics derived from studies of past crimes where these data points are recorded factors and maybe a couple background checks - “Is the dog a pitbull?”- The Calibrater analyzes all of this information to calculate your statistical likelihood of being raped, assaulted, or attacked in that place on that day with those people. That number is then somehow converted into another number which represents how much and of which stress hormones are reasonable and appropriate for you to have coursing through your veins at that point in time. Fear, apprehension, wariness, unease and misgivings will all come standardized. Anyway, that’s just the prototype. V 2.0 will also protect you from spiders, sinkholes, and death rays. This will be especially helpful for people like me, because I’m always being worried about on account of how little I worry. On the other end of the spectrum, no man sitting on any park bench will generate an overreaction, because the parents of the children playing in the park will be experiencing only the discrete reasonable amount of fear of that situation, which - and I haven’t run the numbers! - I think would be nonzero, but pretty damn close to zero. Of course, we’ll all have to remove the parts of our bodies which regulate these stress hormones, so that we’re not double-dosing. It’s mostly just brain structures. In fact, a lot of people already seem to be way ahead of me. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/369 "2013-03-06T09:02:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, I’d say actually worrying about dying in a house fire is absurd. Do the sensible things you can do to avoid it, mainly installing smoke alarms, and then stop worrying. > > Do you think people should be checking every heating and electrical connection obsessively before they go to bed, and every time they get back to the house? Because that would be the equivalent to the level of caution you’re advocating about stranger rape. But if someone had been in a house fire, wouldn’t it be understandable for them to be extra paranoid and precautious? Surely you wouldn’t blame them for double-checking those sockets? And an awful lot of women have been sexually assaulted. Or what if they’re in a situation where a fire is more of a risk? My stupid housing association painted my windows shut, and I was extra-cautious about checking for fire hazards because having only exit and no way to ventilate the place meant that we would have had less chance of surviving a fire. Taking extra precautions was sensible. Same with taking extra precautions in an area known to be higher risk for assaults. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/370 "2013-03-06T10:19:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Annoyed, then. Well annoyed is an entirely different emotion than anger, but sure I’d be annoyed at her. But annoyance doesn’t negate concern. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Maybe I’m misunderstanding the situation, but it sounds like the chick moved to the opposite side of the elevator from him, then held her pepperspray against her chest. I don’t get that she was pointing it at his eyes or at him in general, just that she was holding it. > > There have been plenty of times where I was going to go somewhere I felt less than safe (usually parking garages and lots, let’s be real) and I made sure my pepperspray on my key chain was in my hand, just in case I needed it. I also frequently step away from folks in elevators even under happy, safe circumstances because I don’t want to be all up on a stranger. > > I guess my point is: I’m imagining a woman in the opposite side of the elevator, closing her body off to a stranger, and holding her pepper spray in her hand. It sounds like some of you are imagining a woman cowering in the corner of the elevator, quivering and wide eyed like Scrat from the Pixar shorts, arm extended with pepper spray ready to spray him if he takes a step forward. That particular incident has been described in several different ways in this thread, in fact I’m not sure at this point how the original poster described the actual event. But even if she was Ripley from the Aliens movies and looked at me with steely-eyes and grim-determination the fact she has pepper-spray in her hand is still a threat, if it wasn’t a threat it doesn’t work as a deterrent. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/371 "2013-03-06T14:18:25Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > The woman in the lift sounds like she was overreacting, but claiming you could get her arrested is also overreacting. And while she might have an excuse - she’d recently been attacked, say - I don’t see much excuse for still being angry at her 23 years later. > > I cross the road to avoid anybody late at night, male or female. It’s not like gender is always obvious then anyway. > > However, there was one time when I was walking down a street in broad daylight and shied away from a bloke who came up to ask me directions. He assumed it was because he was a black man, but really it was that I’d been physically assaulted - by a woman - on the same street the day before, and my fear response kicked in before my brain did. Sadly, he probably, quite reasonably, lumps me in with the type of people who follow him round shops because he’s black and therefore a shoplifter. > Have they? I thought the claim was that men were more likely to be the attackers. Also that women are more likely to be sexually assaulted than men. I’m not saying women are likely to physically attack me, more that they will falsly acuse me of being a perve or something like that. I was responding to #352. Something went wrong in the quote department. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/372 "2013-03-06T14:49:52Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > That particular incident has been described in several different ways in this thread, in fact I’m not sure at this point how the original poster described the actual event. > > But even if she was Ripley from the Aliens movies and looked at me with steely-eyes and grim-determination the fact she has pepper-spray in her hand is still a threat, if it wasn’t a threat it doesn’t work as a deterrent. Then it’s worth a re-read: > [@Chimera](#): > > I remember 23 years ago getting on to the elevator in my company’s downtown parking ramp. A woman gets on after me, plasters herself against the wall as far as she can get from me and grabs a small bottle of pepperspray, clutching it fearfully as we go up 2 levels, then waiting on the elevator until I actually reached my car before stepping out. And we only have **Chimera’s** side of the story. We’re speculating as to why this particular woman was so afraid. Did she have a previous brush with violence? Did \*\*Chimera \*\*resemble someone who frightened her? Was she just completely unhinged? We can’t know, but even without her view, I feel sorry for her just from **Chimera’s** description. If she’d been foolish enough to discharge pepper spray in that enclosed can they’d both have been blinded and sick. She must have been very afraid to even consider using pepper spray in an elevator. I’m relating to her because I’ve been afraid several times in my life, and I’m only slightly more vulnerable than most men. I’ve feared professionally dressed coworkers at my workplaces three times. Though I dealt with it myself and never complained, two of them were fired for harassment of other women at work, so apparently I had good reason to feel uncomfortable around them. I’m not scared often, but I’ve been startled by men younger than me, smaller than me, a couple of elderly men, and once I ran to get away a preacher who insisted on laying hands on me and praying over my sunburn at camp. Useless anecdotes for this thread, but I’m trying to say that I’ve felt afraid of scary looking men, trustworthy authority figures, and familiar coworkers. Very few men are villians, but unfortunately villians don’t wear signs. I can’t swear that my fears were justified in any of these incidents because I wasn’t physically harmed by any of them. But I don’t have to justify it. Fear is a healthy, hard-wired response that aids in our survival. Yes, it’s frequently unfounded and irrational, but self-preservation is a stronger instinct than the urge to make all men in my vicinity feel welcome. But this isn’t a closed cycle, this fear response. Each and every time I sought help when startled by a man, I sought a _male_ hero to escort me to my car, to walk the rest of the trail with me, to accompany me back down the beach to my hotel. Haven’t any of the men posting in this thread been asked for similar help? Surely some of you have. My large, intimidating, perpetually scowling ex-boyfriend played hero frequently for female friends and co-workers. He was profiled a few times because he appeared to be unfriendly, too, but he didn’t complain because he realized that his countenance communicated a certain message to others that indicated unfriendliness. The very same countenance led some to view him as a trustworthy source of safety and security. Some men, through no fault of their own, appear to be intimidating or creepy. The same men in different circumstances are expected to fulfill the role of a savior, but so far I haven’t seen any men complaining about being profiled as a hero. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/373 "2013-03-06T18:23:53Z")
If you all want an analogy to a gal glaring at you with a can of Mace in her hand, just picture a guy, who when you get on the elevator, opens his jacket and purposefully puts his hand on a sheath knife or police baton. It would be unerving. I’ve had the disturbing experience of having a guy in an all-night laundromat rest his hand on the grip of his pistol when I walked through the door with my laundry. Maybe he had a good reason in his own mind … maybe he had been mugged late at night. It was a state where visible carry is legal, but it’s still a little scary. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/374 "2013-03-06T18:42:03Z")
No, a better analogy would be getting in an elevator and a man scooting to the other side, away from you. About that time you notice that on his key ring, which is in his hand, is a can of pepper spray that he’s holding-- not pointed at you or anything, just clutching it in his hand. That’s a better analogy because it’s actually equivalent. Now, if the lady in the story had actually been fondling a billy club or machete, then your analogy would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/375 "2013-03-06T19:07:56Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > No, a better analogy would be getting in an elevator and a man scooting to the other side, away from you. About that time you notice that on his key ring, which is in his hand, is a can of pepper spray that he’s holding-- not pointed at you or anything, just clutching it in his hand. But what if I’m giving you [the look](http://i.imgur.com/WR9tN.jpg) while clutching my pepper spray? That tends to get a reaction. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/376 "2013-03-06T19:11:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > No, a better analogy would be getting in an elevator and a man scooting to the other side, away from you. About that time you notice that on his key ring, which is in his hand, is a can of pepper spray that he’s holding-- not pointed at you or anything, just clutching it in his hand. > That’s a better analogy because it’s actually equivalent. Now, if the lady in the story had actually been fondling a billy club or machete, then your analogy would make more sense. Here’s where you’re wrong: Pepper spray on a keychain is practically a cliche for the lone woman walking through the dark parking garage … we generally associate pepper spray with women. I’m sure that some men carry Mace, but it’s really become a women’s defensive weapon of choice, at least as a stereotype. Men are more likely to just carry a gun, but since concealed carry is not as common and not as available to us all as it could be, I picked a couple of weapons I’ve actually seen other men carry around in various cities. I’ve never seen a man with a can of pepper spray except cops with Mace on their belts. I’ve seen dozens of examples of men with visible knives, Tonfas, billies, chains, and knuckles. The analogy works because the distaff version must be pepper spray … you rarely see women wearing belt knives (a few biker chicks) and I’ve never seen men carry spray. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/377 "2013-03-06T19:13:46Z")
So, men can’t carry pepper spray with them? Therefore, the only next logical thing would be to make a false equivalence with a man fondling a billy club in the corner of an elevator? Give me a break. Stop reaching. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/378 "2013-03-06T19:24:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > So, men can’t carry pepper spray with them? Therefore, the only next logical thing would be to make a false equivalence with a man fondling a billy club in the corner of an elevator? Give me a break. > > Stop reaching. I’m not reaching for anything. If men don’t carry spray, there is no gender reversed analogy. Pepper spray is something … I was in a cop bar once and a lady drinking at the bar went off on another customer with pepper spray. They had to clear out the whole bar for an hour. It was painful just to be inside. I’ve also been teargassed. Mace is essentially teargas. It’s unbearable. I take chemical irritant weapons seriously. The idea of brandishing a weapon is deterrence. A man will grasp whatever weapon he carries as will a woman. A man visibly handling a defensive weapon and a woman handling a defensive weapon is analogous. This doesn’t speak to the motivations, but it addresses the observable results. In my estimation, if a person wishes to be armed and ready, they should either be as innocuous as possible, so as to not cause undue tension and alarm, or they should openly show the weapon as a deterrent, in which case they open themselves to whatever criticism is reasonable under the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/379 "2013-03-06T19:39:08Z")
That is one of the most ridiculous, twisted attempts at logic I’ve seen so far in this thread. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716/380 "2013-03-06T21:21:55Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > [Guy](http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/abducting-his-own-child/) gets questioned being with his own daughter. It’s a blog. > > [Letter](http://www.news-journal.com/opinion/letters/letters-on-having-nothing-to-say-trashy-roads-mistaken-identity/article_13fe229f-d657-5627-b453-be9b71a311dd.html) by grandfather who had the police called on him for being with his grandson. > > [Man](http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/sydney-fireman-john-mcgirr-accuses-virgin-of-discrimination/story-e6frfq80-1226447612104)asked to move on plane. > > Granted, they didn’t seem to get in to trouble, but it’s bad enough when someone says something when you’re with your own kids. I’ve spent tons of times with kids not my own without getting crap, and I am reliably informed (by my beloved sister-in-law & even more beloved wife) that I am a largish and somewhat scary-looking person. My brother, who loves kids almost as much as I, has likewise suffered no difficulties I am aware of. My friend Tom … well you see my point. I think your links are the exception, not the rule. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-creepiness/651716.md?page=20)