I’m usually on the opposite of how other women on the board view things, but I don’t think #3 is necessarily true. Whether or not I’d have been fearful of any other occupants in the elevator, I’d certainly pull out my pepper spray in advance of walking through a somewhat darkened, deserted parking garage. Just one point I thought was worth addressing. And I’m staying out of the rest of it for now. Hopefully, some good dialogue will be had between the sexes. If not, I’m sure we’ll all finish up in the pit.
You would be surprised how many people think your paralysis is contagious.
Or they don’t want their kids asking embarrassing questions.
You know what? I have zero issue with women having pepper spray in their hand as they walk to their car as long as it is incidental and they’re not making a show of it. If you are holding it up like you intend to use it, that is a threat and no, it’s not ok, it is a crime in this state. In this case she was holding it in front of her chest and staring at me, so there’s no way I could see that as anything BUT a threat.
(And seriously, I was on the elevator first. If she was that fucking paranoid she could have just not fucking gotten on the elevator with me.)
But again, it all goes back to the idea expressed in the OP that ‘men are evil and cannot be trusted around women and children’. We’ve become a really paranoid society and unfortunately, this seems to be one of the last bastions of publicly tolerated bigotry. At least in some circles, where any other form of bigotry is considered shocking and unacceptable.
This one isn’t acceptable either. If you (like some people in this thread) have to compile reasons why it is acceptable, then you’re ignoring that everyone always compiles reasons why their own bigotry is acceptable, reasonable, proper and ‘true’.
It is definitely not ok to whip out pepper spray when encountering someone. I have no problem with someone discretely holding it in their hand. Women sometimes do this where I walk (I assume not just for me).
I don’t often feel like I’ve been profiled for being a man, but I do my best to avoid others when in a garage for example. I tend not to make eye contact and walk confidently and quickly to where I am going.
I’d be more likely to feel sympathy for a woman I caught palming her keys (as long as she wasn’t making any overt moves to attack me - then shed be getting pepper sprayed herself 
).
I have more than once had my hand on the pepper spray, but in my coat pocket and I think it virtually impossible anyone knew I was doing it.
I don’t mind it so much when I find some young woman who seems scared for her safety. I think I mind it more for the kid thing. I know this sounds awful, but I think it is a bit snobby to think someone wants your bratty kid that bad.
Uh…what? I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Would you think I was taking it personally if I noticed someone drawing a gun as they approached me? Because she approached me and produced a weapon.
I have no way of knowing if she’d been raped before, but I HAVE been attacked by random strangers before.
Would it be insensitive of me to point out that it is seriously wuss for any man to be offended that a woman prepared to protect herself? Biology has shortchanged most of them in regards to defending themselves against men. A man would feel pity and a twinge of sadness that one would be so scared. A man wouldn’t whine about his feelings but consider her motivations. A man would consider the high percentage of women raped and grudgingly accept the cause. He would not consider his feeling of safety paramount over hers when the “weapon” she carried was non leathal and not used.
A man also accomodates the fears of parents by placing himself in their position. It doesn’t mean he isn’t offended but rather that he understands his widdle feewings don’t compare to a molested child. And since I’m being so offensive, a man reaches out to stop a child being hurt no matter how any misunderstanding may hurt him.
Now be butthurt and ignore everything a woman or parent has patiently tried to explain. I’m not leveling this at one but many males here. Guess what else a man doesn’t care about.
Regarding whether or not pepper spray, keys, or anything else counts as a weapon, I would think the acid test is, what would the reaction be if you ran toward the President carrying the item in question?
I don’t think the reaction would be particularly pleasant if you ran at the president with a balloon animal, so I’m not sure that’s a great litmus test.
ETA:
Okay, serious question:
If I see a woman holding pepper spray, keys between knuckles, whatever, is it okay for me, as a man, to get out MY keys, put distance between me and the woman, and walk as quickly as I can to my car? I admit I’m a tad paranoid (as in, this would be my actual reaction), but if I were on an elevator with a woman openly holding pepper spray, my first reaction would be to get off the elevator ASAP and take the stairs just in case. Just like my reaction to having anyone 10 feet behind me on a sparsely populated street, man or woman, is to walk at such a speed that it becomes much more than a 10ft gap.
Why should I answer the phone if it’s somebody I don’t want to talk to?
For me too. I don’t get a lot of calls, but if I don’t recognize the number, there’s a better than decent chance that it’s a junk or scam call. There are a few exceptions, such as ordering pizza (the driver will sometimes call you on their personal phone if they get lost), but those situations where you’ll have to take a call from an unknown number are predictable and rare.
If it is someone I know and I don’t have their number, then it takes two seconds to leave a message or text me and congrats, you’re now in my phone and I will answer your calls when I’m not busy!
I guess if you were scared because she was so large and muscled she might then pull out a weapon which COULD render you dead or incapcitated permanently and thus incapable of supporting your loved ones then I could see leaving you with an untorn man-card. Nothing is absolute. Keys and pepperspray though? Really?
I don’t particularly care about “manliness” as any sort of ideal, and in fact find any notion in the ballpark of a “man card” (or worse “man code”) insufferable. In fact, I don’t think I got mine in the mail, but if I find it I’ll gladly rip it in half and hand it to you, because I have no grand desire to fulfill any checklist of things society (or any given person) says I need to retain it. I may do some of the things, I may not do others, but shaming we with not being able to gain entry into the Men’s Hall of Fame isn’t really a great way to get me to rethink my values.
The fact is, just by my sheer natural strength as a man I could probably overpower an unarmed untrained woman if I knew she was coming at me. If she suckerpunched me with keys between her knuckles or blinded me with pepper spray first? I think I’d be pretty damned useless and more or less at her mercy.
Did I admit that it was probably an irrational fear? Yeah, it’s irrational. But my first reaction to anybody in my vicinity, when I’m alone, holding any sort of item in a way that hints that they’re willing to use it on me is “ohshitohshitohshitohshit.”
I see no problem with a woman discreetly brandishing a weapon, either. I don’t think I would be offended if she did either, because I would know that I had no intention of causing harm. See, I think real offense is when you know that there is some element of truth behind it.
However, I get and don’t get this “all men are rapists” Schick. Ok, I guess all adult men are in some way capable of rape. But, at the same time, it’s practically false to go around believing in this notion. Really, the only thing that qualifies man in this instance is their physical strength, and general position during sex. I can see how women way their options towards safety though.
However, would it be accurate to say that “all people are potential murderers?” Well, yes. Almost all people can get a gun and kill somebody with relative ease. Does this idea practically make sense? No. But, I guess again, you weigh your options.
Okay, Jragon. You asked “as a man is it okay” so I answered according to my definition. I can respect you having your own. It won’t change mine but I respect you having yours. I still can’t respect other than just watching a woman with a non leathal weapon and perhaps staying out of arms reach. Pride wouldn’t allow otherwise. Out of respect for her fear and for her comfort I see nothing wrong with seperating as far as possible when possible. Knowing her fear I would even make certain she reached her car safely and so stay in sight though.
Yes, irrational, you said. I have claustrophobia. I go in caves with my brain constantly telling me it will cave in and I can’t breathe. My personal code tells me I can’t let any fear kick my ass. It’s not foolproof as self preservation but it makes life worth living in my estimation over screaming in terror and running. I never understood a need to throw out all notion of manhood. It worked damn well for the men I most admire in my life.
Of course any number is too many, but is the number really that high? High enough to let it worry you to such a degree? I don’t have the figures but I’m sure there are many other perils that befall hundreds, thousands of times more children than this phantom menace of sexual molestation, and yet that seems to be the thing every mother is most paranoid about. It is very strange how the media have turned this vanishingly improbable threat into such a prevalent fear.
That said, I can’t believe anybody would leave their child with a babysitter, male or female, whom they didn’t know well and trust. Someone mentioned advertising for a babysitter on Craigslist? Seriously?
The amount this affects my life is rather small. I’m not exactly missing many opportunities due to my dislike of having people near me alone. I wouldn’t say I’m ruled by fear, I mostly just make it a point to walk faster and keep an eye out. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I’m screaming and sprinting out of parking garages the second I see another person.
In my experience, the negatives of “manhood” are much more damaging that the positives – both to men and women. I won’t get into all of them, as that’s another thread altogether, but in general I just dislike applying bizarre idiomatic codes of ethics, behaviors, and practices to groups people don’t choose to be in. There’s an exception, of course, for things like “don’t murder people” which apply to people in general. However, I’m wary of anything that tells me I should act or do something because of who I happen to be (an American, a male, white, whatever) rather than who I choose to be.
Rape, and murder for that matter, by complete strangers is extremely rare. It’s not non-existent, but it’s a tiny fraction of the amount committed by people known to the victim.
There’s nothing wrong with taking precautions, such as walking in well lit areas, and being alert to any threatening behaviour, but assuming any man in a parking garage is there to rape you rather than get to his car, despite any actual evidence of threat, is quite literally paranoid, and to have a weapon in your hand is just wrong.
The rest of your post was sexist bullshit.
It is actually very high, depending on definitions. The vast, vast majority is done, again, by acquaintances, not random men in parks or cinemas.
One big problem is that news reports and fiction generally focus on the sensational, not the mundane. Women and children getting abused by their partners or parents, or other acquaintances, is regrettably so common it’s not news. Children being snatched, or women being grabbed in a dark alley*, is rare enough to be reported, and the fact that there are more reports of these, and they get a much higher profile, leads people to wrongly assess the risk.
*The exception to this is groping, which is very often done by strangers. If people really want to debate whether pepper spraying someone who gropes you is legitimate, go for it. As far as I’m concerned, the answer is that it’s probably technically illegal, but no-one would have sympathy for the bloke, and no-one would be convicted, or even charged, for it.
Whether it’s justified or not, it’s a fact of PC life that a man is foolish if he puts himself in a position that can be misinterpreted, especially with children.
Not just recently either- I have refused to give a lift to single female hitchikers for over 30 years.
It’s probably one reason that few males want to be school teachers any more, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be one now.
As for the above, I wouldn’t be alone in a room with a child, even if there were windows or the door was open, and caused problems more than once at work by refusing to be alone in the anaesthetic room with a young woman if the doors had to be closed.
Men must protect themselves against false claims by females, as they are automatically suspected of being in the wrong.
The only data I can find shows that men are a greater percentage of teachers than they were 10 years ago.