Nobody is saying it’s reasonable to pull pepper spray out every time you see a male. But you have no clue about this lady’s life. I’d guess she may have had a close call recently. I’m not usually paranoid, but once a taxi driver pulled into a dark unpopulated area, pulled his dick out, and told me he was going to impregnate me. Damn straight for a few weeks after I was pretty damn touchy. I’m sorry to any guys I may have offended during that period, but that shit digs straight into your most basic self-preservation instincts and it takes a while to process it and move on.
Anyway, maybe she was just crazy. There are lots of crazy people out there. Who knows! I don’t know why you’d take one person’s actions as indicative of the entire state of gender relations.
There are slightly under 200,000 sexual assaults reported per year in the US. Are you seriously claiming that a third of sexual assaults are stranger rapes? That’s not even remotely credible.
If your figure includes all sexual assaults committed by people that the victim hasn’t known for long, such as date rape (which is not stranger rape), and other assaults by short-term acquaintances, it’s possibly believable.
Surveys that include unreported rapes suggest that about 2% of rapes are by strangers. If you want cites, go to Wikipedia and follow the links. It seems like every few months people post a load of bullshit about sexual assault, and I’m one of the few people who actually look at the figures. I hate doing it, it makes me feel sick, mainly because of the realisation of how many people are abusing their partners, friends, and children in their care. Hardly any of them, though, are attacking strangers.
Why women specifically? The advice is pretty much the same for men and women.
Be aware of your surroundings. Avoid places that are to crowded, too empty, or too dark. Don’t carry too much cash. Don’t show off valuable items, such as jewelry or phones. Don’t fight back.
Ahhh yes, insurance would have been very helpful when muggers knocked me on my back, fracturing three vertebrae, to steal seven dollars and a cheap cell phone. I wish I had thought of that before!
While stranger rape is relatively rare, other types of assault and harassment is common. Sure when a guy whips his dick out, rubs against you, or just threatens to rape you, you aren’t physically hurt. But it is still extremely scary and disturbing, especially since we have no way to know if this is as far as it is going to go. Every woman in this thread could tell you stories. Every single one.
The most recent stat I can find (PDF) shows 21,000 stranger rapes in the US committed against women in 2009. This is not “not founded in any sort of reality.”
Steophan covered the statistics part better than I could. 60’000 stranger rapes per year seems high but the USA is a big place.
And I’ll ‘keep going on about’ issues in this thread for as long as it holds my interest. If it bores you feel free to stop reading and/or replying.
Making someone aware that you possess a item that can be used offensively is inherently threatening in itself. People aren’t mind-readers and how would the other be aware of what action may result in her using it? If being present and male is threatening her then what else may cause her to attack you even if in her own mind she is only defending herself.
No more than using care and common sense in any interaction with strangers.
Holding it in your hand is not threatening someone directly. If you think that, I cannot help you understand the rest of the discussion. Repeating it over and over again that someone is “brandishing a weapon!” and “being threatening!” doesn’t make that accurate.
You’re clearly married to this interpretation of events.
Once more for clarity, you clearly need it. Nobody. Walked. Around. Threatening. Every. Man. They. See.
Follow along, please. He said caution about stranger rapes was not founded in any sort of reality. I’m saying that, whether the figure is 21,000 incidents annually or 60,000 incidents annually, that’s a reality worth paying attention to.
By all means do so. At some point, though, it might behoove you to reread what’s being discussed, as you’re totally missing the point of the discussion.
You don’t need a mind-reader to figure out that a woman in an elevator with a man, backed up against one wall and clutching pepper-spray, is worried about being assaulted. Don’t be ridiculous.
You know, snideness really isn’t helping your cause. And really while every single one of those 21’000 incidents is horrific and deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law it means 174’980’000 million (approx, I don’t know the USA’s population) American women weren’t assaulted. I guess its a matter of how you personally are willing to weigh levels of risk, I would respectfully suggest that the level of threat doesn’t correspond to the level of fear that it appears to engender.
Or perhaps I’m interpreting things differently than you? Having my own opinion and all.
You don’t need to be a mind-reader to figure out an innocent man may himself feel threatened by someone reacting in that manner when he approached her. Don’t be ridiculous.
She might be perhaps understandably overreacting due to a recent traumatic event, or she might just be mentally unbalanced, how is the man concerned meant to know?
This wiki page has the 2% claim. It’s a well known issue that the vast amount of rapes and sexual assaults by partners, and a great many by other acquaintances, are not reported. I’ve seen figures where the amount of women who claim to have been sexually assaulted are as much as 10 times the amount reported to the police. One speculated reason for this is the perception that rape is mainly a stranger thing.
All this is cited in the two wiki pages, with several links, if you don’t want to take my word for it.
I note that the pdf you linked to specifically states, in the methodology section, that the results for rape and sexual assault are considered unreliable, due to the small sample size and the perceived difficulty of creating survey questions that are both reliable and sensitive to victims.
That is one third of your original claim, and takes it from approximately one third of reported attacks to one tenth. That is, in my opinion, a significant difference.
My claim is that women are between ten and fifty times more likely to be sexually attacked by someone close to them, and that focussing on stranger attacks is foolish, dangerous to men, and insulting to the majority of men who are not abusers.
I note that the pdf you linked to specifically states, in the methodology section, that the results for rape and sexual assault are considered unreliable, due to the small sample size and the perceived difficulty of creating survey questions that are both reliable and sensitive to victims.
If you guys are still talking about Chimera’s encounter with the woman in the elevator, I don’t think the rate of stranger rape is even relevant because if he had been a rapist then it probably would have been considered an acquaintance rape:
Actually, due to the different definitions used, perhaps, or the different years in which data were gathered, it’s 21% of their data.
A better claim is that acquaintance rapes are nearly four times as common. But your original claim wasn’t about relative frequency, it was about absolute frequency, describing her elevator fear as having no grounding in reality. Can you agree that 21,000 cases annually (at least–given the methodological problems you cite, the actual number is probably higher) comprises grounding in reality?
Since nobody responded to this I will. What makes you uncomfortable? Being looked at? The stink eye? You can’t laugh and wave? It’s that uncomfortable? Crazy is rare and shouldn’t be extrapolated over all of society. Being a little worried about crazy is okay, observant in case it might happen. But being observant in case of predators is okay too. Just don’t be so sensitive if people are curious and observant of you. You don’t want people afraid of you? Alleive the fear. If you can’t then pity them then don’t worry about it. How hard is that? Why is your comfort more important than theirs?
Yes, there were extreme examples cited. Being worried the airport one might be codified into rules I can see. The oversensitivity about what others worry about you is baffling though. You watch your daughter play with my grandaughter and if they come over and talk to me then you come talk to me. Find out my name and where I live. I like cautious and freindly parents. If you are a woman and afraid to then fine. Watch me. I like cautious period. I’m not dainty and ready to fall apart at the first sign of caution. I can be just as open and friendly as you while surviving doubt about me. Why can’t any man?
I worry some about the super friendly kids. Bless them for being wonderful outgoing crusaders of happiness in the world. But I worry for them and not me. I ask where their parents are and wave. I tell them to stay in sight of them. Worry for me and my feelings? It does not compare at all. So miniscule that it’s a fleeting thought. Big freaking damn deal you or I are momentarily uncomfortable. That giggling laugh is all that is important. Surely we agree with that.
Possession isn’t the point. The point is that you are not allowed to threaten people who have done nothing wrong. Displaying your weapon in a manner that communicates a threat runs afoul of a number of laws and may be charged with offenses such as “disorderly conduct,” “brandishing,” or “assault” depending on the state.
So yes, if a woman showed off her pepper spray to a man who had done nothing wrong, she could be charged or sued and have to explain to a jury why a reasonable person would have perceived the man to be a threat.
Going back to the point of OP, if a man did this to a woman he would be in jail.
Does clutching it to your chest constitute “showing off” or “displaying in a manner that communicates a threat”? Serious question. Because you guys are stretching the term “brandishing” to the limits of believability.
I’m quoting for accuracy as there’s some confusion in some posts. Chimera did not approach the woman, although the poster may have been referring to some other incident.
If I am in his situation, I know there is zero chance of me bothering this woman in any way, but there is a more than zero chance of her mental instability, extreme paranoia, stupidity, clumsiness or any other dangerous condition. I wouldn’t post that I’d have made her eat it, but I would be in heightened readiness to defend myself as effectively as possible. Hope there’s a security camera in the elevator.
Saying all men are potential rapists is not different than saying all women are potential false accusers, scam artists, or prostitutes.
Generally, stranger rape is far more likely to be reported that date/acquaintance rape, and vastly more so than partner rape, so I don’t think the actual number will be vastly higher than that. At least partly because, as I mentioned earlier, there is a perception that rape is mainly something that is done outside, by strangers - a false perception that you, and others, are perpetuating in this thread.
Whilst that figure of 21,000 is more credible than 60,000, your own cite points out that it’s an unreliable figure, extrapolated from 10 or less responses to the survey. If you want me to modify my claim to say that women are between 4 and 50 times more likely to be raped by someone they know, I can do so, I don’t feel it affects my point.
The serious question is, do you really think it’s worth making yourself and other women scared, and men offended, based on the 1 in 9,000 (per year) chance you will be raped by a stranger? Spending any time worrying about something that unlikely seems over the top, and taking any more than trivial precautions against it seems absurd, when there are so many greater risks out there.