As I said earlier, I carry pepper spray pretty much everywhere I go, force of habit. I was glad to have it during the Christmas holidays when we had a rash of purse snatchers who were violently shoving people to the ground and stealing purses and shopping bags before driving off. Most who were charged were women. Women who lack penises. Is it okay to guard against them?
You mean like when you changed the words and told us all what Troppus described happening to her was not a threat?
No one is saying they’re going to act on a non-threat. We’re basically arguing about varying definitions of what constitutes a threat, and how that definition is different for women than it is for men because we are more likely to be victims of sexual assault. The women here take precautions, such as carrying non-lethal weapons to defend themselves in the event of an attack. Apparently you believe that holding it in such a fashion where it would be easily accessible in the event of an actual attack is too threatening for you to handle, though.
The thing that is most annoying is the fact that you feel the need to school a bunch of women on what is, or isn’t, a threat to their safety. You, the same guy who said that rape was so unlikely that we should just stop being worried about it and move on. Yeah, probably I won’t take pointers from a guy who thinks being worried about rape is unnecessary to tell me what is and isn’t an actual threat to my body and when I can or can’t respond to that threat. Pointers that differ, in fact, from what actual law enforcement provides. I think I can deduce that on my own and prepare and respond accordingly.
I wouldn’t turn my back on it in an elevator, that’s for sure. Thread be crazy.
(Bolding mine).
And you write that after accusing me of twisting people’s words? Your hypocrisy is outstanding.
Well, what do you expect her to say, after you admitted to being a former KGB executioner, and her being a self-described retired South African Apartheid Enforcement Officer and all?
Finally, someone understands me!
Bolding mine. Stranger rapes, hardly anyone is doing them. Having fear of them is irrational.
I can’t imagine why I would have accused you of saying that women should quit worrying about it because it’s an unlikely event.
Ted Bundy: good-looking guy, smooth social skills. Flashed his pealry whites and baby blues and talked women into incredibly risky situations. Rapist penis ensued.
You: One of those 80% of men who were rated below 50% handsome by the women on OK Cupid; a basic schlub who just wants to get through his day without being falsely accused of being a terrible, terrible person.
So it really doesn’t “hurt” us that women see us as potential rapists, since that’s just the extreme end of them saying they don’t want to date us.
For those of us who aren’t rapists, “You might be/probably are a potential rapist,” is just part of the big bag that includes “my ex was a jerk so you are too,” “all men are either jerks who cheat or losers who can’t bring in a steady paycheck,” etc, etc.
I wish there were an equivalent to pepper spray I could pull out to defend my dignity.
I did say that. What I also said, and you’ve repeatedly ignored, is that rape and sexual assault are disturbingly common, and the vast risk comes from those you already know. So no, I didn’t say rape is nothing to worry about. I said stranger rape is rare enough that you shouldn’t live your life in fear of it, but should take basic precautions to minimise your risk, then get on with your life.
If it makes you happier to ignore the more likely threat and keep insulting innocent people, that’s up to you. As long as you stay within the law and don’t threaten people. It’s still ridiculous.
Here’s the problem with contrasting the two statistics: it means exactly zero to me in that situation. I am standing in a dark parking garage, the thing on my mind is not “I probably shouldn’t worry that much, after all, I am much more likely to be raped by an acquaintance than I am by a stranger”. I do not think, “Good thing I am not a man, because statistically I am more likely to be violently assaulted if I were”.
I think “a large proportion of stranger rapes occur in parking garages. I’m going to hold my pepper spray”. Pointing out in a dangerous situation that there are other, more dangerous situations is less than useless because it doesn’t mitigate at all the risk I have in that very moment of the thing I am concerned about.
Holding pepper spray is a basic precaution. It is not insulting to anyone, and it’s not a threat to anyone unless you plan to attack me. You can think it’s ridiculous if you want, but again, you’re not the one that has to be concerned with the risk at that moment, and it’s exceedingly patronizing to feel like you are more qualified to assess the risk than the woman in the situation itself.
Your’e holding that pepper spray in the parking garage against the possibilitiess, not the probablitilites. So statistics don’t matter.
Of course, all the women who are defending that right, men’s fragile egos be damned, in this thread are paratrooping into the “Boyfriend’s failure to commit” thead to defend the boyfriend’s protecting himself from the possibility of eventually being dragged through divorce court, losing half his shit, not getting to see his kids, being accused of pedophilia to leverage higher child support, etc.
Uh, what? I just scrolled through that thread looking at usernames, and I only counted one person who has been active in both. What are you talking about?
Where did you get that anyone is ignoring the more likely threat? Serious question. Do you think it’s an either/or - protect yourself against strangers or against people you know, not both?
Also, since I have been raped by a stranger, am I allowed to be extra-careful? Those stats that show 1 woman in 200 has been raped by a stranger seem in the right ballpark to me, as long as you’re quite strict about the definitions of stranger and rape, but that still means that, in a large company, several women there will have gone through it.
Sexual assault by a stranger is so common that any stat lower than 80% would be suspicious. I’m including groping as sexual assault, and that simply is really common in clubs and bars and even on public transport or the street. Hell, my 14-year-old daughter has already experienced it, and she doesn’t go to clubs or bars or do anything high-risk at all. Simply walking home from a friend’s house on a crowded street in daylight is a risk.
It’s not rape, but it’s extremely unpleasant and can be terrifying if accompanied by a realistic threat of more happening.
These are NOT events so rare they’re not worth worrying about. Holding pepper spray is not an over-reaction, especially in locations that are higher-risk.
Still don’t know why you keep changing pepper spray to a knife or gun. Men can use pepper spray too, and probably should carry it in areas of high risk to them. And you can’t kill someone with pepper spray unless maybe you held someone down and forced it down their throat, which I think we would all agree is assault.
Nm
I haven’t read that thread. From the title, I thought it was a relationship thread from someone fairly young. It also sounds like it’s completely unrelated to this thread, even from your description. If I defend my right to be wary of strange men, how does that equate to me being obliged to post on something totally unrelated?
Are the men on this thread also obliged to post on that one, or just the women?
It’s clear that Chimera was insulted by elevator woman’s display, and you are insulted by the idea of a woman carrying pepper spray in her hand. But I don’t understand why. If I were in his place, I’d assume that a woman holding pepper spray had a fearful nature, had a previous bad experience, or was taking proactive measures to ensure her safety in an unsafe location. Most men I see running or on bikes have pepper spray and I don’t take it personally. Why is it personal for you?
Is it personal because you want to keep your options open to start a conversation with attractive strangers? Is it because you subscribe to the MRA belief that men are losing power as women gain equality? Is it because you, personally, would never harm anyone and resent being profiled? I really don’t get what’s “insulting” or why you are attacking me (or rather, attacking women who carry pepper spray). Why not attack public safety officers, the media, or the manufacturers of pepper spray?
Tell me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming that it’s because you want to feel at ease approaching attractive strangers and are discouraged by the presence of pepper spray. When I’m running or hiking lots I see a lot of friendly people, often the same people over and over. Sometimes we say hi or share a little bit of small talk, but everyone keeps moving and those who are clearly there for recreation don’t often attempt to steer anyone off the trail for in-depth conversation. It’s no different from small talk in the grocery: people are there to perform a function, and if it’s convenient to talk: we’ll do so. Thing is, the park, while it may be full of healthy, attractive, friendly people: is not a bar. (Neither is the elevator)
It doesn’t happen often, but whenever anyone attempts to interrupt my run or hike and start a conversation or asks me personal questions, I’m alarmed and uncomfortable. The person stopping me may have come to the park to meet people, but those of us in running or hiking clothes who are obviously in pursuit of physical recreation are the least receptive to pick-up attempts. If the pepper spray in my hand or strapped to my wrist in any way discourages strangers from stopping me for conversation or flirtation: then it’s doing half the job I want it to. If it’s presence indicates that I’m willing and able to stop unwanted attention, that’s exactly what I’m going for. Is that what is so insulting? That you feel that since I’m in a public location, that I should welcome unwanted attention from strangers?
I will explain it to you as carefully and as simply as posible:woman doesn’t want to go into a strange, posible violently dangerous place without protection. Everyone respects her choice, and (mainly women) are righteouslyoffended by anything suggestive of “oh, she’s just a chickenshit little girl.”
man doesn’t want to get into a possibly legally dangerous relationship. (Mainly women) post in with “oh, he’s just a chickenshit little boy.”
Probably why ther’s never been effective laws written to prevent goring of oxen.
Yeah, I’m still not seeing a) the paratroopering of women from this thread to go over there and be hypocrites, and b) what in the blue hell that thread has to do with this one. Maybe you can keep them organized in your head by keeping them separate and not dragging whatever chip on your shoulder you have from that one over here and making a bunch of shit up
But it’s easy to avoid a possibly legally dangerous relationship. You spot a woman holding pepper spray: avoid her. She’s made it clear that she isn’t interested in any degree of relationship.
Maybe this is one of those “the fact that [liberal/conservative] posters have not complained about this obscure news article yet proves that they are hypocrites!” things, in which everyone in here is supposed to proactively go into that thread and support the man, in order to be consistent.