# "Guys and Dolls" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789 "2007-01-21T03:19:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![want2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@want2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2know)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/21 "2007-01-22T19:23:16Z")
I’m a huge fan of “Guys and Dolls”; I’ve seen the movie several times and worked on a couple of stage productions. I thought Sinatra was very good as Nathan. He brought out the character extremely well and the chemistry between him and Vivian Blaine was near-perfect. I don’t think he would have played Sky as well as he played Nathan. Brando, on the other hand…meh. I’ve never been a big fan of Brando’s style, and I never thought mich of his portrayal of Sky. I felt he was too young for the part. Sky is a “man of the world” who, IMHO, should be at least the same age as most of the other “guys”. And his singing just made me cringe! “Acting” a song is all well and good, but Sky has the best songs in the show from a melodic standpoint, and the part should be played by a singer who can act, not an “actor” who can carry a tune. Then again, I shouldn’t be surprised. With very few exceptions, Hollywood generally messes up most musicals by casting them that way. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/22 "2007-01-22T21:26:26Z")
[QUOTE=want2know] I’m a huge fan of “Guys and Dolls”; I’ve seen the movie several times and worked on a couple of stage productions. I thought Sinatra was very good as Nathan. He brought out the character extremely well and the chemistry between him and Vivian Blaine was near-perfect. I don’t think he would have played Sky as well as he played Nathan. Brando, on the other hand…meh. I’ve never been a big fan of Brando’s style, and I never thought mich of his portrayal of Sky. I felt he was too young for the part. Sky is a “man of the world” who, IMHO, should be at least the same age as most of the other “guys”. And his singing just made me cringe! “Acting” a song is all well and good, but Sky has the best songs in the show from a melodic standpoint, and the part should be played by a singer who can act, not an “actor” who can carry a tune. Then again, I shouldn’t be surprised. With very few exceptions, Hollywood generally messes up most musicals by casting them that way. [/QUOTE] Howard Keel would have been much better. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/23 "2007-01-22T21:27:23Z")
Former Nicely Nicely here. I first learned the show from the old Broadway recording with Robert Alda. When I finally saw the movie, I was pretty stunned that the-powers-that-be had denied Sinatra the role the best suited his voice and replaced him with…Marlon Brando? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Time and tide, though, change all things, and my opinions have certainly changed over the past 18 years. For one thing, I decided I was not a Sinatra fan. It may have been part of his signature, or the style of the times, but I could never stand the way he refused to stick with the damned beat of any song he ever sang. So these days, knowing how insulted Frankie was in not landing the part of Sky, I enjoy the movie a bit more. I have so much fun watching Frankie barely controlling his volcanic temper every moment he has to share the screen with Brando. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/24 "2007-01-22T21:42:10Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Howard Keel would have been much better. 😉 [/QUOTE] Ew. As Sky? Ew ew ew. Brando is pure sex in the role. It makes sense for Sarah to fall for someone that studly. Howard Keel? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/25 "2007-01-22T21:58:30Z")
[QUOTE=Kizarvexius] It may have been part of his signature…but I could never stand the way he refused to stick with the damned beat of any song he ever sang. [/QUOTE] Well, different strokes and all that, but to me this was an integral part of what made Sinatra seem to be living the songs he sang and why he seemed to own a song once he sang it. He was able to impart more emotion–and more of a feeling of his own life’s experience–by phrasing his songs the way he did rather than sticking to the mechanical beat of a song. Further, his phrasing was so impeccable and top-flight that anyone attempting to get the same result with their singing only seemed to be copying him. Whatta guy! Just my opinion. YMV, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/26 "2007-01-22T22:46:24Z")
[QUOTE=Khadaji] Sit down you’re rocking the boat is one of my favorite songs from that movie. I haven’t seen it in ages. [/QUOTE] Every time I’ve seen that song in a theatre, it’s led to an instant encore. Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/27 "2007-01-23T03:22:15Z")
The local civic theater group did a dinner/show combo for charity, and put on “Guys and Dolls” I was a volunteer for making the dessert, and got to make the suggestion on what to have. It took a heck of a lot of strudel and cheesecake to feed all those folks! ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/28 "2007-01-23T03:24:45Z")
[QUOTE=Baker] The local civic theater group did a dinner/show combo for charity, and put on “Guys and Dolls” I was a volunteer for making the dessert, and got to make the suggestion on what to have. It took a heck of a lot of strudel and cheesecake to feed all those folks! [/QUOTE] How many cheesecake? Also, how many strudel? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/29 "2007-01-23T13:59:15Z")
And was it more cheesecake or more strudel? And did someone serve cider? ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/30 "2007-01-23T14:36:22Z")
My favorite “Guys and Dolls” memory is our high-school production (!) where I was in the pit band. After being at all the rehearsals, we had the lines pretty much memorized and knew what was coming. In the last scene in the last night’s performance, the high-school junior who was playing ? had the line “What a lucky fellow”, except this time it came out “What a fff… lucky fellow.” The who pit band broke out laughing and we almost couldn’t finish the last piece. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/31 "2007-01-23T17:46:39Z")
_Guys & Dolls_ is my second-favorite musical of all time – \*West Side Story \* being #1 – and I love both the film and the revival. I like the songs in the stage version best, though: I love “My Time of Day,” and am always disappointed when Brando sings “A Woman in Love” instead. I also always miss the fun pieces “A Bushel and a Peck” and “Marry the Man Today.” 🙂 [QUOTE=Kizarvexius] Former Nicely Nicely here. [/QUOTE] Former Sarah Brown here, if my high school senior year production counts. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/32 "2007-01-23T18:00:00Z")
I’ve actually never seen this movie, though I am currently playing piano for a local production of the show. This was the first show I saw in person that was a musical that I remember really enjoying when I was little. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/33 "2007-01-23T20:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Well, different strokes and all that, but to me this was an integral part of what made Sinatra seem to be living the songs he sang and why he seemed to own a song once he sang it. He was able to impart more emotion–and more of a feeling of his own life’s experience–by phrasing his songs the way he did rather than sticking to the mechanical beat of a song. Further, his phrasing was so impeccable and top-flight that anyone attempting to get the same result with their singing only seemed to be copying him. Whatta guy! Just my opinion. YMV, of course. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Most of my singing experience is classically oriented, with a lot of chorus work. In that setting, the person who isn’t singing in tempo is a constant irritation – either an idiot who can’t count or an egotistical snot who wants to stand out when they should be blending in. I know that rules like this shift from one genre to another, but that’s one bit of baggage I’ll probably always carry around with me. [QUOTE=Misnomer] Former Sarah Brown here, if my high school senior year production counts. 😃 [/QUOTE] I would hope it does, or Nicely Nicely here would be ineligible as well. My favorite _Guys & Dolls_ story. During my big solo number (_Sit Down You’re Rockin The Boat_), I ad libbed a bit of business during performance. On the line “And the devil will drag you under/ by the fancy tie 'round your wicked throat” I grabbed the necktie worn by the nearest gambler and tried to lift him out of his seat. How was I to know it was a clip-on? Somehow I managed to keep my composure until the song ended. As the lights blacked out, I dashed off stage, ran out the back door of the auditorium and almost collapsed in fits of hysterical laughter. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/34 "2007-01-24T13:52:30Z")
OT … [QUOTE=twickster] Ew. As Sky? Ew ew ew. Brando is pure sex in the role. It makes sense for Sarah to fall for someone that studly. Howard Keel? Not so much. [/QUOTE] Though I can’t see him as Sky, I beg very much to differ about Keel not being studly. Ever see Keel as Fred/Petruchio in _Kiss Me, Kate_ singing “Where Is the Life That Late I Led?” That voice … those eyes … that lusty, wicked smile … ohhhhh my. And btw, this classically trained (opera/musical theater) singer will defend Sinatra’s style with the last breath in my body! A pop or jazz singer sticking rigidly with the beat would sound like a total square with not an ounce of musicality or emotion. Those wonderful songs by the Gershwins, Porter, Rodgers/Hart, et al. aren’t supposed to be either pounded at like a stentorian or prissily uttered like a schoolmarm reciting the times tables – they’re meant to be caressed, emoted, purred, and/or played with. Sinatra made love to his songs, and I daresay few songwriters minded when Frankie had his way with 'em. So to speak. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/35 "2007-01-24T15:06:45Z")
[QUOTE=choie] Though I can’t see him as Sky, I beg very much to differ about Keel not being studly. Ever see Keel as Fred/Petruchio in _Kiss Me, Kate_ singing “Where Is the Life That Late I Led?” That voice … those eyes … that lusty, wicked smile … ohhhhh my. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, boinkable there – and in _Seven Brides for Seven Brothers_. But overall – too polished-macho for my taste. And definitely not panty-wetting enough for Sky. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/36 "2007-02-12T03:31:28Z")
I’m still not buying the idea of some characters not being expected to sing in tune. Virtually all musicals have characters who wouldn’t be expected to sing at all, but they do, without breaking character. Who would expect characters like the Phantom of the Opera or Sweeney Todd or Javert to be able to sing well? Not to mention Cats. But they’ve all been performed convincingly by accomplished singers. And if Sky Masterson sounds more “authentic” singing flat, then why doesn’t Nathan Detroit sound more “authentic” using contractions? You can have authenticity re the original Damon Runyon characters, or authenticity re actual people whom they represent. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/37 "2007-02-12T05:45:30Z")
I had only ever seen Brando in much older movies before I saw **Guys and Dolls**. After I did (for the first time) I vowed, and I have kept the vow, never to watch another movie with Brando old in it. I want to keep the G&D Brando immortal in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789/38 "2007-02-12T06:56:49Z")
My fav song is “Bushel and a Peck” ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-and-dolls/388789.md?page=1)