# Guys ask girls out- useful convention, or unfair burden? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 3, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232 "2012-01-03T06:00:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/81 "2012-01-04T17:07:32Z")
This entire thread is best summed up by [McSweeney’s](http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-post-gender-normative-man-tries-to-pick-up-a-woman-at-a-bar). ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/82 "2012-01-04T17:16:35Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > This entire thread is best summed up by [McSweeney’s](http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-post-gender-normative-man-tries-to-pick-up-a-woman-at-a-bar). Amasia, did you step out of your kitchen to type this? How about being a little more ladylike? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/83 "2012-01-04T17:45:23Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What, exactly, would you know about social competence? Haven’t all of your interpersonal relationships been disastrous failures? > > \ > > Perhaps it’s because you’re socially inept and don’t realize nobody likes you? > > Is this a serious question? The obvious answer being yes, on top of which a socially clueless person berating everyone about their cluelessness, gets this thread a 10/10 in my book. > > Brava! You know, **MeanOldLady** , it’s rather ironic you lecture **even sven** on her cluelessness in regards to others’ feelings, yet you feel no compunction about zinging her with insults which perhaps might hurt hers. No insults, that’s the rule. And **Jaledin** — You might want to dial back the crude, loudmouth boor shtick. Some of the whores and pussies around here might start taking offense. Just a tip. ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/84 "2012-01-04T17:58:07Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Amasia, did you step out of your kitchen to type this? > How about being a little more ladylike? Sorry, I was just getting bored cookin’ and cleanin’- waitin’ for a REAL MAN. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/85 "2012-01-04T18:11:29Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > Sorry, I was just getting bored cookin’ and cleanin’- waitin’ for a REAL MAN. It’s surprising that you would be bored. Aren’t you a medical student or about to be? For a long time, women were not allowed to become physicians, it wasn’t in conformity with traditional gender roles. I’m sure you’re glad some people went against those traditional gender roles. So, what principle(s) do you use to determine which traditional gender roles should be kept and which would be jettisoned? I agree that a man who would go about hitting on a woman in a bar in the same way the article described would be going about it the wrong way. But it does not follow that opposition to traditional gender roles requires that. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/86 "2012-01-04T18:17:39Z")
My memory failed me, it was your sister. Still, how would you like your sister to be constrained by traditional gender roles? ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/87 "2012-01-04T18:25:06Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > It’s surprising that you would be bored. Aren’t you a medical student or about to be? For a long time, women were not allowed to become physicians, it wasn’t in conformity with traditional gender roles. I’m sure you’re glad some people went against those traditional gender roles. > > So, what principle(s) do you use to determine which traditional gender roles should be kept and which would be jettisoned? > > I agree that a man who would go about hitting on a woman in a bar in the same way the article described would be going about it the wrong way. But it does not follow that opposition to traditional gender roles requires that. Actually, I’m quite opposed to perpetuating traditional gender roles. The _McSweeney’s_ I posted was more of a comment on some of the silly hyperbole seen in this thread and other similar ones. And for the record, I think it’s fairly silly for a woman to expect that a man will do all of the asking/approaching if both people want to have an equal relationship. However, whenever I’ve been single, I have always appreciated someone approaching me- just like I would hope that someone would appreciate me approaching them. I also don’t really have a problem talking to random people, so striking up a conversation/issuing an invitation is not a huge deal for me (although always scary if it’s someone you’re seriously interested in). However, I realize that other people may be more shy or more traditional and am generally cool with whatever works for them. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/88 "2012-01-04T18:30:46Z")
Hi Amasia, I agree with everything you said in your last post except the “cool with traditional”. Sorry for my hostile tone. I took the least generous interpretation of what you wrote and thought you were making an entirely different point. I shouldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/89 "2012-01-04T18:35:12Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Hi Amasia, > > I agree with everything you said in your last post except the “cool with traditional”. Sorry for my hostile tone. I took the least generous interpretation of what you wrote and thought you were making an entirely different point. I shouldn’t have. Not a problem 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/90 "2012-01-04T18:48:19Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Consider two guys: One who just wants to have fun and one who wants to have a relationship. > > Fun guy will ask lots of girls out because he’s just looking to have fun. It doesn’t really matter how compatible she is. He’s looking for a few days or weeks of fun. He’s good at asking girls out because he’s doing it a couple of times a week. Practice makes perfect and he’s had lots of opportunities to hone his skill. > > Relationship guy will be searching for a woman who is suitable for a long-term relationship. Rather than being happy with anything female, he’s looking for a woman with several different qualities. He doesn’t run into these women often–maybe just a handful a year. He might only ask a woman out a couple of times a year. He’s probably clumsy because he doesn’t know how to go about it. > > So if a woman is basing her decision on a relationship on how well the man approaches her, she’s really being conned. He knows how to approach and what to say because he’s practiced it hundreds of times on other women–women he’s no longer in a relationship with. The smoother a guy is, the better chance that he’s just looking to have a bit of fun until the next thing comes along. This is so true and it’s totally how I got screwed over. With no experience myself, it didn’t occur to me HOW my ex got the skills that made him so smooth with women. :smack: (Oh, and I love that McSweeny’s. I would totally do that guy. If he existed.) ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/91 "2012-01-04T18:50:34Z")
> [@ProbablyProcrastinating](#): > > (Oh, and I love that McSweeny’s. I would totally do that guy. If he existed.) Did you check and see who the author was? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/92 "2012-01-04T18:52:22Z")
> [@ProbablyProcrastinating](#): > > I would totally do that guy. If he existed. Hey, how’s it going? Mind if I sidle up? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/93 "2012-01-04T20:58:38Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > Did you check and see who the author was? Not the author, the hypothetical guy doing the macking. And no, I did not Google the author. Heh. Coming up with a young actor. Hi **Michael**! Not quite ready to date yet. Hence my safe proclamation of doing the fictional character if he existed. But sidle up if you enjoy the friend zone. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/94 "2012-01-05T00:16:46Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > You know, **MeanOldLady** , it’s rather ironic you lecture **even sven** on her cluelessness in regards to others’ feelings, yet you feel no compunction about zinging her with insults which perhaps might hurt hers. Guilty as charged. I never considered the possibility that she might have feelings. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/95 "2012-01-05T01:07:53Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Deciding, without having previously interacted with me romantically, that we have long term potential, is frankly offensive. That’s preposterous. What have you to be offended about? Deciding a person appears to have long term **potential** is not the same as deciding you’re going to marry them; it’s simply the establishment of particular criteria for who you want to date. I don’t want to date someone 20 years younger than me, or someone who’s not very bright, or someone who plans on moving to New Zealand soon, for the simple reason that it’d be a waste of time; the relationship would end within a month, and I’m not interested in a relationship that is 100% likely to end in thirty days. Of course, any new relationship might end in less than 30 days, but my goal is one that does not, and so there’s no point in investing my time in one that is certainly to be over in four weeks. I’d rather start a relationship that might last longer than that. You’re saying that’s\* offensive\*? Are you shitting me? ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/96 "2012-01-05T15:31:49Z")
I find it absolutely silly to rely on gender to determine who asks who out, especially in a world where women are gaining economic and social equality. I have never hesitated to ask out men I’ve been interested in. They haven’t all been perfect matches, but neither have the men who’ve asked me out, and I’ve been more successful with the men I pursued, to the point where I married one! My mom asked my dad out and they’ve been happily married over 30 years, so I always raise an eyebrow when women complain that they can’t get good men by asking them out. You just need to better learn how to assess potential dates. I have been shot down when asking men out, but so what? Men go through that themselves. I’ve yet to end up with a man who was only after sex (maybe because I take a bit before I’m ready to engage in it). I generally despise the PUA types and prefer to ask out or be asked out by individuals I already know socially. I’ve always hated it when guys try to ask me out in supermarkets. I’ve only waited to be approached by women, but that was mostly to be sure that I wasn’t trying to pick up a straight girl by accident. I still heavily flirted with them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/97 "2012-01-05T21:26:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > No-one on here has said “OMG, I can’t do it!”; it’s just people complaining about having to do it and/or wishing that the onus wasn’t on men. Yes…well. Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see what fills up first.😉 > [@Der Trihs](#): > > There’s a rule that’s generally held for me since childhood; when someone tells you to “be a man” they are telling you to do something that’s stupid or unpleasant for you, but beneficial for them. Sometimes to receive something beneficial, you need to do something else that’s stupid or unpleasent. > [@rogerbox](#): > > It’s really simple. If you think you are woman enough to have sex with a man, you should be woman enough to walk up to her and ask her out. I’ve been asked out by plenty of women. And not just the skanks either…well…some of them were skanks. > [@rogerbox](#): > > Your posting is so extreme, bro. [I think you might have a lot to contribute in the “bro” thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636717) ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/98 "2012-01-05T21:59:49Z")
My use of “bro” was an intentional parody of that poster because the “EXTREME” type of frat boy who has to go out of his way to talk like that uses it a lot. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/99 "2012-01-06T00:52:47Z")
It’s been years since I was in the dating pool, but IMO \*\*filmore \*\*nailed it with both his posts. Perhaps if I’d been more Mr. FunGuy than Mr. RelationshipGuy I’d be agreeing with the OP that the men-always-and-only-ask system works well. Because it would have been working well for me & my ilk. The battle of the sexes is not an equal fight, nor a fight between mirror-image adversaries. Nor is it played on a level playing field. Whether seeking a fun-mate or a life-mate both parties are seeking different things via different strategies & using different tactics which play to their respective strengths & weaknesses. Strengths & weaknesses are both individual and sex-stereotypic. We in Western society are currently experimenting with the most gender-equal social arrangements in the history of the species. It’s by no means clear whether the pendulum has swung too far past center or not yet far enough to even get to center. The one thing which seems clear to me is the less we stick to ancient rules the more likely we’ll be to discover what really works for modern sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232/100 "2012-01-06T01:16:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > [QUOTE=Der Trihs] > There’s a rule that’s generally held for me since childhood; when someone tells you to “be a man” they are telling you to do something that’s stupid or unpleasant for you, but beneficial for them. Sometimes to receive something beneficial, you need to do something else that’s stupid or unpleasent. [/QUOTE] But very seldom if ever does that come from anything that someone pushes at me with the “be a man” line. Like I said, I noticed it even as a kid; when adults told me to “act like a man” they gave _bad_ advice; when they said “act like an adult” it was generally _good_ advice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-ask-girls-out-useful-convention-or-unfair-burden/608232.md?page=6)